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Post by sam on Jan 6, 2006 17:17:17 GMT 1
james tends to lead in to the plant with his toes down...if he could work on keeping his toes up he would hit heel first and then have more chance of locking out...because he lands on his toes there is no chance his heel ever getting down
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Post by slinger on Jan 6, 2006 21:14:27 GMT 1
to counter the toe first final left foot landing is fairly simple - the base needs to be a tad wider, a wide base makes it impossible to put toe first and also does a couple of other things 1. makes the athlete more stable 2. increases the range of the pull on the implement, as the throwing hand is usually always directly above the right at final left foot contact and the release is directly above the left foot......wider base = longer pull. to achieve a wide base the athlete must have the left foot well in advance of the right at final right foot contact, a full extended run off will help this plus something which might help and what zelezny thought about was to imagine you are trying to get both right and left to land at the same time, this of course won't happen nor do we want this too happen but it will ensure you advance the left as far forward as you can. on the subject of changing the style of training we too have started [yesterday] to change the conditioning/strength work for exercises that incorporate a bit more speed and more specific strength work.......power based med ball throws, heavy and light implements balls, batons and javelins varied single and two footed jumps [though nothing serious yet] short sprints [less than 60m!!!!] and varied direction agility sprints, this is thursdays, throwing javelins [and other mentioned bits and pieces] still on tuesdays..........and most importantly vid on sunday!!!!
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Post by Administrator on Jan 7, 2006 3:04:21 GMT 1
I hope I'm not boring people with these pictures but I'm finding the feedback very useful! I think the rear view highlights a few points that some people have raised already. 1. As BP said, my right foot drags on the instep. 2. The contact time on my right foot before the left comes down looks like a long time. 3. I'm not too sure how well the picture displays this but the javelin drags a long way left in the flight.
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Post by slinger on Jan 7, 2006 16:52:08 GMT 1
james....... to throw straight force needs to be applied through the length of the javelin and not from the side, this i'm sure you are well aware....if you look however at frames 10 and 11 you can see that the left arm/shoulder/side has been pulled left, this essentially means that during the pull, by pulling the left side away you are imparting a side ways force upon the javelin, combine this with a 'soggy' block, and the javelin will always go left....................i've also noticed the lack of a 'real recovery', this too won't help the javelin flight as you need to continue driving straight over the left leg and by straight i mean directly over the left with your chest facing the direction of throw - watch zelezny, makarov, gatzioudis and backley from '98 and you'll see great recoveries where momentum is carried on well after the javelin is released, hope that's helped!
if i sent a vhs video to you could you put 'stills' or the actual throw on here for people to view???
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Post by Administrator on Jan 7, 2006 17:52:30 GMT 1
You can indeed send VHS to me and I will do what I can to get some stills together for you. Mail me or PM me and I'll let you know how best to go about it.
Agree completely about the sideways force, another problem to counter. Something else to work on!
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Post by slinger on Jan 7, 2006 18:36:02 GMT 1
the positive thing is james, is that you've thrown a fairly long way already and with the improvements you hope to make then you'll certainly be looking at 65m+
now the the main thing is finding out what works best for you, personally i'd suggest loads of fuller approach throws at not quite full pace, this will give you the time you need to be able to think about what you are doing and by doing the throws off a full approach then this is very specific to competition style throws.........by all means continue the short approach stuff, but get to the back of the run up as soon as possible.
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Post by slinger on Jan 8, 2006 10:27:02 GMT 1
james when throwing off say 3 or 5 strides does the javelin fly straight then??? as it looks to me from the stills you wrap more off a longer approach, this will only complicate things and make performing other skills more difficult............don't get me wrong i have absolutely nothing against rotational throwing it's just that for ease of use a more linear approach is probably best..........back to the rotational thing i threw crazy wrapped when i was 16 and 18 and it worked [sometimes!!!] for me because of my lack of levers [being only 5'10'' - short for a javelin thrower] the rotational style suited, as it gave me more time with the jav and a longer pull, BUT there was alimit to how far to rotate - if i went too far i couldn't work my feet as desired, too less and i minimised contact time with the spear....it was a fine line for error - an example of how difficult the timing was in 1998 i threw 68.58m not too long after my 17th birthday, a short time after i threw 60.?? in germany!!!!! ;D for consistent throwing it's best to keep it very simple and user friendly!!!!
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Post by slinger on Feb 13, 2006 21:21:41 GMT 1
just a quick note on the training we are doing.....it has changes further more....... the medi ball stuff we have been doing has changed so the balls are now a bit lighter - to incorporate more speed work, this changed at the start of feb. and will change again soon to even lighter again at the start of march. actual javelin throwing has suffered a wee bit as the weather has been really bad for the last 3 or 4 throwing sessions [3 or 4 weeks, as only 1 throwing sesh/week] i think the first ever involvement of basic plyo's took it's toll too, but it's very encouraging as the other day mike said when mucking about with his mates he could pick them up and throw them around!!! is that encouraging??? sounds like he's being a 13 year old!!!!! his legs do look bigger than ever and don't look skinny anymore so that's perhaps showing he's building a bit of mass. power must be good as he's thrown 41m off 3 strides and not too long ago he could only do 35m tops, he threw 53m the other night off a very short approach [2 or 3 steps] into his 5 stride withdrawl but off a fuller approach he was losing the point big time and they being "skyed" - he's pulling his left side away big time and he and the jav just separate, we are going to work on keeping up with the jav and improving the point control - then when that's sorted we'll see something good......
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Post by slinger on Mar 4, 2006 14:22:12 GMT 1
after my last post on what we are doing or have been doing we've had a couple of absolute shockers!!! - i said mike had thrown 41m from 3, he's now thrown over 43m from 3, BUT when he's taken his run up further back he's struggled to throw more than a few metres further - this has caused athletic kit bag kicking, swearing and some nights close to tears......from me, obviously! and it got to the stage where he was doubting whether he could do it anymore........... BUT i know this is just what happens and you'll get through it.......my job however is to try and do things to get out of it before A, it knocks too much of his confidence and B, change things technically before he develops any bad habits.......and with a bit of hard thinking and head scratching on my part [that's why i'm bald! ] we've sorted it out!!! - the weather too has played a part as it's been very poor for the past 6 - 8 weeks. the problems were that mike wasn't running off at impulse and blocking as part of the result was incredibly weak other problems too were that he was opening his chest too early and pre-emptying the throw... ...sorted these probs by firstly slowing the whole thing down BIG TIME! and making the X overs active and even width-ed [this was important actually] then working hard on driving off the left on impulse. To stay side on longer we thought about keeping the left shoulder shut off during the X overs and most importantly when doing short stuff [3's and 5's] to firstly prime the left shoulder shutting off by turning the left hand so the little finger is facing up and the thumb down - this action closes off the left. The block still isn't brilliant but it's getting there and a work - in - progress!!! sometimes it's brilliant sometimes just okay. during the throwing sessions he always throws one 50m, usually around 52m, but that's just it one - it's not consistent enough, some are 45m, some are 47ish.....there hasn't been any consistency and this of course isn't good for trying to improve your technique, but with these changes things are looking up - with the start of march and around 7 - 8 weeks till first comp i wanted to change the training again - now we throw javs twice a week and the emphasis is now on throwing, so tuesday is still 600g javs and sprints to finish, thursday instead of loads of medi ball it's now throwing 700g javs - i think throwing twice gives you more memory of the last session as it's still fresh in your mind, and things are looking up like i said - this tuesday he did 53m with the 600g from a shorter controlled approach and on thursday with the 700g abit further [only cm's] and in all the throws only one was a bad 'un! is anyone else getting more throwing orientated now with training and perhaps preparing full approaches for comps? it isn't too long a way till you will all start competing and the sooner you get your comp run up sorted the better!!!! ;D
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Post by Mack on Mar 4, 2006 19:27:55 GMT 1
I started throwing sunday morning about 4/5 weeks ago and one other time during the week since.
Crap... it is all crap, I haven't even been able to throw 50m, I open too much, don't block enough and have a lot of pain in my right sholder.
I have tried everything to get it right and my wife and my Dad have had an ear full. I then went on to kicking my jav accross the infield.
I went to Steves' masterclass today and one of the first things I listened to (got there late) was that if it goes wrong and you know you can do it, then just trust in your body to get in to the positions and relax.
I relaxed today, started things easy and threw well.
Well thats what I've been up to. Need to work on my run up rythem now.
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Post by slinger on Mar 4, 2006 19:42:26 GMT 1
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Post by eggbert000 on Mar 4, 2006 22:44:19 GMT 1
neil i thought your throwing was good today as steve said the runup was not as smooth as it could but you didnt half get threw the throw
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Post by Mack on Mar 4, 2006 23:44:36 GMT 1
Some times we just need to just let all happen and not force it. After a good day of throwing, spirits are high.
As you said Phil, we all have bad days, you just need to roll with it. ;D
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Post by 400mguy on Mar 8, 2006 1:58:55 GMT 1
I did some throws today basicly 1-stride throws. My coach has been to finland and discussed some training subjects with them and found out that they throw a lot from one stride with the blocking leg not fully touching the ground and then moving into the block. I really felt the blocking and I helped me throw some 5m further. So thing look great at this moment. Still doing al lot of weighttraining, I know you guys don't all aprove but still weighttraining is basicly the training which helps you to cope with larger forces acting on the human body so keeping the work up, although i am reducing the number of exercises and time I spend in the weightroom, speed is becoming more essential as summer approaches.
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Post by eggbert000 on Mar 8, 2006 11:10:14 GMT 1
True you need that explosive speed and also lots of power but you have to have good agility and balance so its trying to get a balance of what work to do and when
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