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Post by wez on May 25, 2007 11:44:17 GMT 1
now thats what we like to hear
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Post by pj on May 25, 2007 12:43:58 GMT 1
Jeremy,
I totally agree with you and you aethos. I must get back to coaching. I do not agree that we should criticise athletes and coaches on here. I even have reservations about Officials because they give of their time freely for no reward. We are all human and thus prone to mistakes although some of us would dispute this.
I would love to get back to the common purpose of improving British javelin throwing by being positive, positive, positive!!! The great atmosphere that is prevalent amongst our best throwers in competition is often lost on here.
Phil
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Post by H on May 25, 2007 13:38:29 GMT 1
Bit off the debate but has anyone got any points on my shoddy technique lol!!
Apart from the fact I need a runup which i have been working on this week!!
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Post by dobster on May 25, 2007 18:21:56 GMT 1
Bit off the debate but has anyone got any points on my shoddy technique lol!! Apart from the fact I need a runup which i have been working on this week!! Just sent you a PM - and no it wasn't abusive  Tom |
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Post by sam on May 25, 2007 18:32:19 GMT 1
Bit off the debate but has anyone got any points on my shoddy technique lol!! Apart from the fact I need a runup which i have been working on this week!! you know where i am mate as previously offered!! |
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mike
Pitkamaki
Posts: 119
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Post by mike on May 25, 2007 21:23:04 GMT 1
"we pull the javelin through (with a straight arm)" said Jeremy. We do?  ?? Who'd you here that from, Sam? You need a new coach mate!! |
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Post by sam on May 25, 2007 22:02:04 GMT 1
erm.... not my coaching...MIKE
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Post by H on May 25, 2007 23:20:29 GMT 1
Cheers Tom  |
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Post by slinger on May 26, 2007 8:40:18 GMT 1
"we pull the javelin through (with a straight arm)" said Jeremy. We do? ?? Who'd you here that from, Sam? You need a new coach mate!! well, i was wondering when somebody would jump on that comment! ;D i doubt jeremy thinks you 'cricket bowl' a javelin, well if he does, he's not doing as he thinks is correct as he doesn't cricket bowl it from what i remember ;D ;D ;D i have to admit that it can be difficult as times to translate people's technical phrases or "info talk" as we often use words which are individual to us and often many people haven't heard of them, it's also difficult at times to describe an action - it happened the other day when dobster wrote about greer's "run off" and nije, a very experienced coach and thrower hadn't heard of the "run off" yet i use it that term quite a bit, basically it's the impulse stride and the "run off" is the action of running off your left leg as you perform the impulse.......sometimes things get lost in translation don't they? it was good of nije to ask what he meant by it tbh, as probably often people read these boards and don't understand what people mean by technical phrases...if you don't understand ask is what i say! - no-one is going to bite anyone's head off. on the subjest of not understanding people's own technical wording or phrases... i can remember going warm weather training a while back and my coach/advisor/looker on - JT [whatever you want to call it] wasn't there for the first week of the trip, but we did have another person come along to help out with spotting us when we threw javelins - well anyway talking of getting lost in translation i couldn't get my head around what this person was saying now i fully appreciate that what they were saying was probably exactly the same or similar as what JT [the coach who couldn't come out for the first week] but i just couldn't get to grips with it at all, as it was said in way i just wasn't used to and it ended up being a shocking week of javelin throwing!!! - things got back on track the second week mind......
has anyone else had similar experiences like that one?
i have also had a top..ish name coach [again best not name any names!! ;D] watch one of my sessions at a national squad i think...not sure tbh anyway, i told them exactly what i was working on at that current time and then for them to go off on every single throw telling me this was wrong, that was wrong and then someting else was wrong!!! - i only bloody told them to watch for one thing!!! - i was well aware of my other problems but i wanted a sole emphasis of one thing in that session ffs! - some people don't listen i guess - anyway needless to say i went away a very confused boy and had doubts of whether what i was actually working on was right for me - absolute nightmare!!!
and i guess it's the same on internet forums as humour can be lost the same way technical info can be mis-read....
anyone willing to share their thoughts? |
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Post by nije on May 26, 2007 9:29:07 GMT 1
HI All
Yeah some of our terminology gets lost in translation. I assume Jez meant throwing from a straight arma s I am sure he does encourage bowling as he doesn't do it himself. Also Tom and slinger were talking about run off and I didn't know what they meant and Phil explained it adn I am eternally thankful. In fairness I have picked up some good tips here inclding a great one from Phil about landing the right foot on theball rather than the more natural side of the foot. I'd never thought of that! As mentioned before, I am not one who has been without success but am always learning. i got my sixth formes teaching some of the younger ones jav the other night and was really impressed with their efforts and their fault corrective techniques TBH - I'd say they were better than me as I do get a little bit lazy with kids some times and really under coach them at first so they can develop a basic technique but the 6th formers watched one throw, then took control! Good on 'em I say!
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Post by pj on May 26, 2007 21:47:02 GMT 1
Bowlers in cricket do not straight arm it. There is always a significant bend. Up to 15 degrees is allowed within the Laws. This is the reason many bowlers have what is considered suspect bowling actions and are no-balled for 'chucking' on occasions. It is my belief that the closer a javelin thrower can get to duplicating the bowling action without straight arming the javelin the more likely he/she is to keeping the release high, using all the attendant muscles correctly and in correct sequence and best of all not dropping the arm at any stage otherwise they would look more like the Sri Lankan pace bowler Malinga the Slinger (?) Where have I heard that nickname before?
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Post by sam on May 26, 2007 21:53:43 GMT 1
speaking of which.. there are some javelin throwers who would love to get this kind of base out!  |
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Post by nije on May 26, 2007 23:52:02 GMT 1
One of my main problems with my cricketers who throw jav is that they find it hard to change the site line and body action as the bowling release naturally causes a downward or collapsing action at the point of delivery as the force has to be exerted on a dowward release.
Malinga the slinger and his country man Muralli have suffered from being no balled when they have visited australia and new zealand and certain umpires objected to their bowling actions. Hence at the recent 1 day world cup, when they started bowling all the Aussies shout 'NO BALL' as they deliver.
Also - I read somewhere that the study done on murallie was quesioned for it's academic credibility and rigour as it apparently only measured angles in two dimension rather than three, which means that correct angles were not actually recorded and the cradle that was fitted to his arm rotated (slipped) to change the angle when he bowled.
It is similar when you measure release speeds - it has to be in a 3 dimentional plane otherwise a true value is not achieved. I discovered after plagerising er I mean writing my undergraduate thesis on javelin throwing (like Mick Hill did ), the research by Uri Terauds who used TOm Petranoff as one of his subjects - actually admitted to fudging or in scientific terms 'extrapolated' values as his javagun type cannon was unreliable and basically faulty. Recent research has provided different values.
I enjoyed a briefing I had form a national coach who told me once that the software he used (quintec I think) could work out speeds and angles from TV - until I asked how this could be achieved without any points of reference and the fact that the TV picture he used from BBC's coverage of a Crystal palace meet which involved zooming in and out. Yes you could get some approximate readings but then again it is not accurate science. Most big meets (AAA's) have biomech data in this country now and are an itneresting read if you know what you are looking for and understand that sort of stuff. Usually an effective cure for insomnia!
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Post by pj on May 27, 2007 18:48:09 GMT 1
The defence for Murali was that he does not have a straight arm to start with. He cannot straighten it so the parameters regarding the 15 degree allowance are different. There is some jealousy here on the part of the Aussies. What a wingeing lot! Apart from Murali's fantastic bowling have you seen him throwing a cricket ball? He is so powerful. I thiught only 'quicks' had a reputation for throwing hard and fast.
What is one man's cure for insomnia is another man's wake-up call.
We have not fully embraced the sciences that could benefit our sports people yet.
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Post by jeremy on May 28, 2007 22:19:15 GMT 1
"we pull the javelin through (with a straight arm)" said Jeremy. We do? ?? Who'd you here that from, Sam? You need a new coach mate!! Just for clarity I meant straight arm (as opposed to bent arm). I've heard that from just about everyone. Maybe not as many as you, but over the last few years at the club nights, quite a few youngsters come up and ask for me to give a few pointers on the javelin and I try and keep it very simple. Wether someone is going from a pb of 10m to 15m (to get extra points for their team or try and qualify for English schools or break records, I always try and keep it simple. I find it also helps to keep up dialogue with other coaches who can help improve things for the athlete. Not much point in me getting a new coach (a bit difficult to replace the javelin forum!) Things are going well with the people I train with. Good winters training, not many injury worries, and all throwing reasonably well at the moment. How's your throwing going? Apparently you are injured. Sorry about that. It seems to happen quite a lot to you. Maybe with the spare time you can develop something better than my earlier "3 keys to spear throwing," (4 if you include separation). Or maybe it's you who needs a new coach, in fact if you are self-taught i'd recommend it mate!! |
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