|
Post by tomd on Oct 21, 2005 0:20:13 GMT 1
Oh and one more thing, the below cut and paste from Dave's post above, I think is spot on:
'A technical note to finish on is that we should all be working on running hard off the left leg throughout the withdrawel phase of the throw to minimise the braking force exerted on the left leg (or right if you are cag handed....like Sam Allen from Leeds!!!) and maximise the propelling force, therefore ensuring that maximum amount of impulse is carried into the throw and hence greater ground reaction forces are exerted on the left leg. This as i have found through my studies leads to a greater release velocity and that is the sinlge most important fact in determining distances!'
I know this is something Mike McNeil mentioned quite a lot to me, but to be honest it took me quite a while to get my head around the concept in terms of how vital it is to a successful throw.
|
|
|
Post by slinger on Oct 21, 2005 13:20:41 GMT 1
when throwing javelins i believe you must throw with a purpose it's no good throwing just for the sake of it - i used to when i was very young and ended up with technical deficencies and the odd sore elbow!!!
it's possible not to throw for a month and not lose any of your technical ability, in fact it's possible to do this after a year of not throwing!!!!! so stopping whilst you get conditioned shouldn't be a problem, infact stopping throwing for a while is extremely beneficial because when you return to throwing you have a re-newed hunger!!! - which is very important when it's peeing down!!!
give your body a rest as javelin throwing is extremely punishing!
remember - we are conditioning our selves to throw the javelin, not to lift more weight.
|
|
|
Post by slinger on Oct 22, 2005 20:31:07 GMT 1
....................surely it's better to condition ourselves in a specific way to javelin throwing, than to condition ourselves to become a weight lifter!!! i understand that by doing this type of condioning you are preparing your body for the hard winter's lifting, but at the end of the day is lifting lot's more weight beneficial to throwing the javelin further? ? i don't know to be honest, but what i am sure of is there is no relation to big weights lifted = big javelin distances, and at the end of the day isn't that what you want - further javelin throws? if not become a weight lifter!!!!!!!!!!!! some of the uk's very best athletes are probably capable of lifting say 120-130kg clean, well isn't that enough? ?? why spend hours trying to better it to say lift 140kg i'm sure that their javelin PB wouldn't increase - so what's the point? why not concentrate on actual javelin throwing technique or athleticness??? i'm sure if these were improved then their javelin PB would definately increase!!! one of the first lesson's my first coach [who i will be eternally grateful to and sadly passed away on the day i won my last english schools'] tought me - THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR THROWING and to this very day i stand by that - condition yourself for javelin throwing, get specific and become STRONG at javelin throwing and you will become a much better athlete than someone who can clean or snatch more than you..............at the end of the day we are not full time athletes and with today's busy lifestyles we must take as much as possible from the time we have available............
|
|
|
Post by tomd on Oct 22, 2005 23:05:44 GMT 1
Phil, everyone responds to training stimuli in different ways. There is no definitive right or wrong answer in this. If people want to lift in the conditioning phase and it works for them, then so be it. Lifting at 50-60% of 1RM (for example) for 6-10 reps is not going to harm or damage your throwing ability.
Focussing on lifting (which the US athletes tend to do) is wrong, and that is something noone on this forum will disagree with.
However, we must all operate with an open mind. Just because you were not a strength thrower it doesn't mean that being one is wrong.
|
|
|
Post by slinger on Oct 23, 2005 9:48:44 GMT 1
but what i'm getting at is that because we are all very limited time-wise in what training we can do, are there better ways to increase our javelin PB's? yes, in an ideal world of full time training we'd be doing everything!!! but with commitments like work, kids and other hobbies etc i'm sure there are better ways and methods to throwing a javelin further.....
|
|
|
Post by Patience on Oct 23, 2005 14:41:17 GMT 1
I'm just back from the first pyramid session of the winter. I'm well puggled. Where's the beer?
|
|
|
Post by slinger on Oct 23, 2005 19:10:07 GMT 1
that's true, i wasn't a 'strength thrower' but i was stronger than my lifting PB's stated - alot stronger i could of easily cleaned 120 maybe even 130kg in 2000, just my lifting technique was poor what do you expect from someone training on their own 18/19 years old in a shed 12' x 8' with just enough room to stand up, plus i never spent any real time lifting - if the weather was good i'd go to the track and throw or do some med ball or something else........going back to 2000 i was in great shape, not because of lifting but because i trained to be an athlete i should of thrown 73m+ probably 75m, but due to the odd season of having two mini seasons i never really got to my best, but that's history what i'm getting at is we should all aim to become 'athletes' not numb weightlifters - the best javelin throwers in the world certainly are very athletic people.
i guess it's personal choice and as tom says it's what works for you but what ever training you do, make sure that it has the most benefit for the time you are putting in...........
|
|
|
Post by tomd on Oct 24, 2005 13:12:40 GMT 1
Funny you should say that Phil because, I too, was not a strength thrower and was certainly stronger than my pbs stated, in fact quite a bit stronger. I could of easily cleaned 150, just that my lifting technique, like yours was poor. Like you I have trained mainly on my own from age 16!! In fact had I not been injured at some of the most innappropriate times of my throwing career then I would have thrown 75m+. But thats history, so who cares. But an interesting side debate here - what do you work on when time is limited - your strengths and hope that they exceed and compensate for your weaknesses or do you work on your weaknesses and let the strengths take care of themselves (someone did quote 'you are only as strong as your biggest weakness'). One for discussion and I am sure that young(ish) Sharpey is bound to contribute to ;D
|
|
|
Post by slinger on Oct 30, 2005 2:32:08 GMT 1
sorry for the long wait chaps and chapess's my internet been off for over a week so i've not been on but it's now fixed so i'm back!!!! [sorry i know you all thought i was gone for good but well you know me, couldn't keep away!!!] i was speaking to a few people a while ago and they were thinking on the lines that you should make what your really good at even better - a kind of super strength if you like, i personally like the idea of training to become more all rounded, but concentrate on the things that make us athletic - you see lot's of guys are big and strong yet are very numb looking they lack any feel and look slow, even awkward.......go to club meets they are there.......... as for the theory on 'your only as strong as your biggest weakness' well this i believe is true but when your throwing a javelin it's the type of weakness you have which depends on the level of your weakness.........explanation time!!! - if your strength is javelin throwing technique and you aren't so clever in the strength department then you'll still throw a javelin a fair way.........however if your technique isn't bad and say your athletic ability is great then you'll still throw a javelin a fair way.........BUT if your throwing technique is poor but you are strong as an Ox then you will not throw very far!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - i mean come on have you ever seen an Ox in the olympics? ?? ;D the very best javelin throwers are athletes that are very well rounded.......i read an interview with jan zelezny in the thrower magazine once and he was asked about strengths and weaknesses he said that he thought his throwing technique was particulary important and his major strength but he said physically he wasn't the best at anything, but he had no faults.........
|
|