1 rep maxes in the gym

[Administrator]

We did some 1 rep max testing in the gym at the weekend. We intend to do these tests through the winter periodically to see how we are improving.

Note: These are not weights PBs, just where we are at the moment:

Sam Harrison

Bench press: 90KG
Dead lift: 155KG
Box squat: 180KG

Clean: 85KG
Push press: 75KG
Snatch: x

James Everard

Bench press: 107.5KG
Deadlift: 195KG
Box squat: 190KG

Clean: 90KG
Push press: 80KG
Snatch: 65KG

I'll add Emma and Louise's scores tonight.

We're also hoping to track some pullover scores but didn't have time at the weekend to do them.

[james]

70kg Clean
60kg Snatch
80kg Bench
120 half squat havn't gone the full way down because im weak.

[slinger]

i know this doesn't couny but these are my bests from around the time i threw 71.79m..........

clean - 90kg
squat [half] 180kg
bench - 90kg
snatch - 67.5kg
pullovers [with tricep bar] - 80kg
dead lift - 140... ish kg

remember though Jan Zelezny age 21.........87m WR -
[get hold of this on tape! it's a must have!!!]

bench - 80kg
snatch - 55kg
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Patience]

Now that the hard work is starting in the gym , how much would you reasonably have expected your maximums to have changed from the end of last winter's training to the start of this winters?

[lasher2]

You wouldn't expect any change at all in terms of improvements. Of course you would expect to be lifting less at his time of year gievn the lack of strength work that you would have and indeed should have done.

Over the summer you lose what is termed maximum strength as you should be sharper in the summer and that strength should have converted more to the power that you utilise when throwing.

At the moment most people will be in their conditioning phases and therefore not remotely close to lifting singles or doubles in the gym. I have just finished my conditioning phase and I have been doing 6s for 4 weeks. Because I have been lifting weights for quite a number of years, I know that I am at about 85-90% of my maximum strength at the moment and I will more than likely peak during december and maintain that strength through to february when I taper for Melbourne.

I wouldn't worry too much about what your pbs are in the gym right now. Get your throwing on track as that is the hard bit. The strength work and the other bits of training are the easy things that improve everyday with the right level of commitment, but the throwing and technical work is the key!

David

[slinger]

good point lasher son!!!!!

remember big improvements in throwing technique = big increase in javelin throwing distance.

big increases in strength however doesn't always = big increases in javelin throwing distance!!!

wonder what my karma is now???

[lasher2]

Further to the previous post.

It is good to do some testing to see where you are at, but when you go into the max strength phase you will be doing singles anyway, so there is little point spending time testing 1RMs in the gym through the other training periods.

The main reason being training fatigue. Any tests done throughout conditioning and other phases will be done when the body is under a high amount of stress through the amount of training that is being undertaken through that phase. Therefore whatever you test it is not going to be a true reflection of your ability to lift heavy at that time.

When you do the max strength work, your body will adapt to this phase and the recoveries etc will enable you to lift heavy along with the huge reduction in training volume at that time.

High Volume and High Intensity is a recipe for injury. High volume will mean the body is fatigued and you will therefore be risking injuries by testing. The other factor is that testing involves usually quick movements, which will be a shock to the body if all it has done for a month is hammer out a lot of reps in the gym or ball work or track work of course.

I would suggest leaving the 1RM lifts to the max strength phase. You will not expect to lift heavier at any time in any other phase and the volume will be at a level where you can give each lift your maximum concentration and effort.

I have just finished 4 weeks of conditioning and in terms of what I have done so far if it helps anyone as a reference, here are my lifting performances;

Power Clean; 117.5/6 (PB for 1 = 150)
Power Snatch; 90/6 (PB = 115)
Front Parallel Squat; 130/6 (PB = 170)
Power Jerk; 110/6 (PB = 140)
Push Press; 97.5/6
Decline Bench Press; 115/6 (PB = 145)
Jump Squat; 65/6

These are all better than Mick's pbs and he threw 86.94m. Evidence surely that strength in the gym is not a massively importany factor in the outcome of a throw. It means that I should throw further, but it is important to focus on the links between the gym and the run up, something I am doing a lot more of currently!

D

[Administrator]

These 1RMs were just done to see if the training we are doing in the gym is working, not as part of the actual training. We will do less reps in the winter but just wanted a starting point for reference.

[slinger]

presumably most or all athletes should be going through some kind of conditioning phase currently, so performing 1 rep maxs, certainly won't tell you if the training you are doing is working. infact it's best not to do these kind of sessions as for reason one you aren't in any shape to move quickly and will probably fail the lifts and secondly your muscle groups will be fatigued and risk of injury can happen. to find a reference of what percentages to use, you should work them out off your current pb - which in lifting terms was probably last winter!!!!! if it was in the summer you are doing something wrong!!!! or you've found something that's very different from the norm!!!!

infact if you are currently in some form of conditioning i'd leave weightlifting well alone!!!!! - unless you one of the very few with excellent technique, as when you want to get 'fit' you should be performing 6-8 repitions per set, and if you aren't technically sound by the fifth.sixth,seventh and so on, you'll be sh*gg*d out!!! and it's just crying out for injuries - you'll be best sticking to running, biking, circuits, medi ball work, hurdle stuff, foot drills and gambetta drills etc to get conditioned. if you must lift use this time to improve technique, and by the state of your pbs shown in the lifting sam and james you need to improve technically - then you'll maybe see the benefits of lifting, it's obvious from the rest of your scores that you are quite strong and should definately be capable of lifting more - your scores are quite similar to mine [they did improve a bit later in my career] and i definately should of lifted more weight than my 100kg pb clean, but my technique was useless!!!!

having said all that lifting weights certainly isn't the be all in javelin throwing, it's just another arrow in your quiver!!!!!!!!!!

there are certainly more beneficial things to do with your time...................

[JB]

whats a gambetta drill slinger ?

[tomd]

Interesting topic this one. Basically I don't disagree with anyone here. My view is that doing 1RMs at this stage of the year can be quite interesting. It certainly adds a bit of agression, bit of competition (to some very monotonous, quantity based work) and can provide a reasonably useful benchmark for firstly, how strong/powerful you currently are (just like doing distance medball throws, test quad etc) and it can also indicate that loss of strength over the summer.

The latter for me is key. Over the years I have learnt how much strength I routinely loose during the summer. It helps by indicating that you may have to do some decent strength work during the summer and also allows you to plan the intial training phases a bit better.

Also at this time of the year there is nothing wrong with doing plenty of lifting. Injury risk is reasonably low (personally I have never injured myself lifting and you now how prone I can be to injury!!) and it can add some real hard work to your training.

Bottom line you do what is right for you. If lifting at this time of year works then do it.

[Patience]

Ah well. We use 3 rep max and not 1 rep max and I've just finished testing these to see where the winter lifting program starts off.
I can't decide whether to be thoroughly ashamed of the fact my deadlift has improved 15kg since the end of last winter! Strangely all my leg strength seems to have either increased or not changed and my arm strength has only fallen off a bit.
Perhaps I should walk on my hands a lot during the summer!
Still, the gym work is something I enjoy and can easily work at on my own. It's a bit of a shame that due to work commitments I've had to change gym for a bit and I'm sharing with a heap of body builders who are obsessed with muscle size. It is very scary the way they stop part way through a session to look at the latest magazine someone has brought in and drool over the muscles! I have, in only 2 visits, learned everything I could have ever wanted or needed to know about body waxing and probably a few uses for baby oil that no-one should ever have to know.
Still, if I can last until Christmas keeping quiet in the corner, perhaps they will never notice I'm there. ;D

[tomd]

jb said:

whats a gambetta drill slinger ?

John, do a google search and you will find it. Basically, it is various exercises that exercise the shoulder and rotator cuff area.

Assume the pressup position, now move sideways, forwards, backwards in that position. You will find if you keep you middle in neutral (pilates style) and work with the shoulders you will get a solid workout - these are the basic exercises.

To be honest it is not something I did a great deal of - if I needed to condition the shoulder I used therabands (far safer in my mind) but that is not to knock the gambetta drills. They can be made into fun sessions with younguns and also good for group sessions as well.

[slinger]

the exercises in question are as tom said to condition the shoulder area, a guy called verne gambetta invented them - an american i think? and we started to do them in about '97 or '98, there are probably loads of different ex's you can do but i'll try to explain a couple....
first point is to get in to a press up pos. - no sagging!!!!

1/. travel sideways moving legs and arms at the same time hands meeting hands and feet meeting feet, don't forget to return to the starting place as remember to work both sides!!!

2/. travel sideways but cross over hands this time!! - bit more difficult!!!!

3/. travel forwards as opposed to sideways moving both legs and arms.

4/. do number 1 but up and down a step

5/. you can do it on two raised benchs, one lies straight the other gets further away kind of making a shape like - I /

these sort of ex's are also good for core stab. aswell as the shoulder area, they aren't that time consuming and you won't have to do many to feel the effect!!! perhaps stick them in after a medi ball session?

remeber though that it sometimes can be difficult to start with, as it's a new skill and once you've learnt them you'll be able to devise your own!!!

i think tom doesn't like them very much because they make you look abit odd - he likes looking all macho with his elastic bands!!!!!

[sam]

I always wondered what they were called...i just get my group to do them....