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Post by hollingworth on Sept 25, 2009 13:07:16 GMT 1
hi Wez its well worth continuing i know how you feel i have 3 kids , and broke my right wrist last oct, toddlers are very tiring so fitting in training is tough .You would miss the comps I know i would so despite loosing pretty much every match i entered this year with below par performances I enjoyed it thats what its about mate.
all the best
Glyn
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Post by wez on Sept 25, 2009 13:56:40 GMT 1
Glyn,
Cheers for the encouraging words!
You are right i would miss it, but then again i will have to stop at some point and i've had enough big injuries to have provided me with an excuse to do so. I would need to find some other sprot that motivates me more so until that happens, i will be having one more proper go at jav. It does hurt me though to throw below par, for me just turning up isn't enough. On the other hand getting beaten and watching those around me improve does make me want to get one over on them next season.
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Post by H on Sept 25, 2009 20:08:49 GMT 1
haha well people change samuel!!!!
Wez - haha can you imagine me rocking up next season and throwing about 90 with a 600 lol
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Post by sam on Sept 26, 2009 10:40:25 GMT 1
well conditions today are awesome. Gentle wind and lots of sun. Really looking forward to this!
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Post by Mack on Sept 26, 2009 18:45:35 GMT 1
Nice calm weather, sun, light wind. I must say, this is one of the few times I've enjoyed a competition this year. Not the furthest I've thrown this year and not the most important comp. But I really enjoyed it.
Now it's rest time till winter training.
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Post by sam on Sept 26, 2009 19:27:02 GMT 1
good stuff today neil. 69m for you and 69m for roald. I managed a measly 50.77m. The way roald throws it is completely crazy, you just wouldn't coach it to kids. I'm amazed at how he throws so far!
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Post by pembrokian on Sept 28, 2009 19:15:10 GMT 1
"you just wouldn't coach it to kids"
That's the beauty of it, one size doesn't fit all and that's where the skill (I haven't got !) of coaching comes into it. You've got to look at what you have to work with and devise a model that best suits them.
Wish I could have been there.
Any chance of getting Roald's perfs onto the PoT ? I'm assuming he's still English.
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Post by jeremy on Sept 28, 2009 22:56:31 GMT 1
I don't want to get into a debate as to "what should be coached to kids" or what shouldn't be coached to kids. Apart from to sat that it should be done and dusted before a competition (certainly not during)
More than one person made a point of telling me how "crazy/stupid" Roald's technique was, which i found interesting in itself. If I was in their shoes I'd try to find out why he throws like he does? Does the fact that he has spinabiphoda (apologies for bad spelling) have an impact on his chosen technique? What about his other disabilities? How has he craeted the "range" that most people don't even thing is important? Why do people not understand what the word rotational is? Why are people too thick to understand that we were given two ears and one mouth for a reason?
Why dp so many people wish to put down someone rather than praise him?
I was there, I watched all the throws. Less than 10 % of the throwers used their right foot (hence no trigger for the hip strike).
Most of the throwers seem to be very poorly coached. This is a combination of the coaches not understanding what needs to be instructed/coached/mentored and in what order; and, or not having the people skills to do so effectively.
PS. Next year, at any javelin event I attend that a coach does anything other than encourage athletes (each and all of them) - what I'm talking about here is "giving instruction", I will gaffer tape their mouth shut. Coaches who "give instruction to their athletes during competitions (most of the time it comes unsolicited from the athlete) are just advertising to the rest of the spectators what idiots they are.
Jeremy
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Post by pembrokian on Sept 29, 2009 16:35:13 GMT 1
Goodness me, Jeremy, that's a bit aggressive. Words like "too thick" and "idiots" don't go down well.
I agree that, in principle, everything should be done and dusted long before the competition starts but there's been several occasions when a quick prompt can make a big difference (such as Mr Harrison gave me at Throws Fest). I go to most major international competitions as a spectator and, I can assure you, almost every coach in the world fights for the best spot to give their athletes instructions from - I'm sure they can't all be idiots.
I wouldn't make threats about gaffer-taping peoples mouths either - I bet there's some very big coaches out there (Nije ?) !
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Post by dobster on Sept 29, 2009 22:13:26 GMT 1
To be honest I can see where both of you are coming from here - I have quite often seen coaches try to over coach an athlete at a comp, by giving 3 or 4 technical points to bear in mind for the next throw - certainly not clever as hardly any athlete (irrespective of ability) can assimilate that sort of input in a comp. Nevertheless, to not coach at all and purely let the athlete just get on with it can also be fool hardy. Accepted that there are occasions when an athlete will be on their own at a comp, so they do need a healthy amount of information in order to observe and correct problems at a comp. In fact I recall Backley talking about this at a squad session and then going on to describe his 'technical crutch' which he could always rely on. However, a coach/athlete relationship, that is based on good communication should have the scope to allow a coach to impart technical information in a comp - certain key words or simple phrases (which both have worked on and used, hence part of their 'unique language') is all that should be needed. I certainly had this with Mike and more often than not the simple phrases he would say to me invariably worked. But it is a good issue to raise and to discuss. As for the gaffer tape, well for some coaches (and athletes) there aint enough in the world - isnt that right H
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Post by jeremy on Sept 30, 2009 1:30:46 GMT 1
Goodness me, Jeremy, that's a bit aggressive. Words like "too thick" and "idiots" don't go down well. I agree that, in principle, everything should be done and dusted long before the competition starts but there's been several occasions when a quick prompt can make a big difference (such as Mr Harrison gave me at Throws Fest). I go to most major international competitions as a spectator and, I can assure you, almost every coach in the world fights for the best spot to give their athletes instructions from - I'm sure they can't all be idiots. I wouldn't make threats about gaffer-taping peoples mouths either - I bet there's some very big coaches out there (Nije ?) ! Fair point Pembrokian, it doesn't tend to go down well when people are called too thick or idiots. But that is still the truth IMHO and i have seen it from many coaches over many competitions all year. To me, one of the most important attributes for a coach is to have the people skills to make the athlete self-reliant. Some one once said that a coach is just a carriage with 4 wheels to get the athlete to the competition. This applies to our grassroots athletics as well as our Olympians. In my view, the athlete should gradually build up this self-reliance, with heavy input from the coach. Coaches can be unable to attend events for many reasons; wrong paperwork, other engagemnent, and worse still, we have heard of the untimely and terribly sad early death of some coaches. I think that we both might actually be in agreement on this, together with the imput of Tom; I certainly agree that the athlete should be going into a competition with a maximium of "one" thing when competing, and it is fair for the coach (and/or family) to point this out along with the right encouragement. And this should be agreed between coach and athlete before the competition (hopefully at the most recent training session.) It is also important to use the correct language. For example, if the athlete tends to let the point of the javelin leave the side of the head and veer above the head during the throw, then this won't help the throw. Saying "Come on jeremy, let's try to keep the point in the right position..." is much more powerful than saying: "Jeremy don't lose the point", which is language that won't only "not work" but will probably make the "point control" postion worse. These are the views that I have stolen from most of the javelin community, so seeing as they seem to work, I go with them. Jeremy
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Post by pembrokian on Sept 30, 2009 8:38:45 GMT 1
It would gobsmack you to see, up-close, just how amazingly un-self-reliant most Olympic athletes are ! Most of them can't tie their own shoelaces without running over to the edge of the track to ask the coach first.
We always go for tickets close to the jumping pits/throwing cage on the back straight and, especially in the multi-events, the coaches are never far away.
The number 1 question ?
Invariably, "Should I take the next jump/throw/height ?" Doesn't matter what the language is, you can always tell what they're asking.
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Post by nije on Sept 30, 2009 18:26:16 GMT 1
wow jeremy response number 37 was a bit strong. YOu are entitled to your opinion but I wonder why you seem to think yours is right in this case. Coaching is a little bit more complex than that as you have to deal with individual differences adn man management skills menas that you do not treat everyone the same and I agree with pembrokain, you shouldn't be calling coaches idiots and thick - even if you had coached a stream of olympic champions (which you haven't) as I guess that would make you rather unpopular. I appreciate you meant some jest in your tone but my point is that there are various coaching styles and a variety of personalities out there to coach so you have to try and do the right thing at the right time adn some people like myself (as Mick was as well when we discussed it in the season) were very independent when they threw and rarely looked to the sidelines for help or to blame. At the end of the day you can prepare an athlete but it is for them to then go out and perform. Bckley was a great competitor as he had it in him and I am sure he would not attribute his success to anyone particularly teaching him to be a great competitor, he just was and that's what makes him great. TBH the more experienced you get, the more you take an advisory role with the top athletes.
SO I wouldn't be too hasty in brandishing and gaffer tape across the tracks next summer and there are people far more bad tempered than me! YOu never know you may see a return as I am still outlifting and out-throwing many of my group (mainly girls if that counts!) at present in our conditioning phase!
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Post by jeremy on Oct 1, 2009 2:51:02 GMT 1
Nigel,
What is your point, if you have one?
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Post by wez on Oct 1, 2009 8:38:02 GMT 1
Heres a point to consider Jeremy...
Have you ever wondered why there are no longer any actual atheltes participating in this forum, particuarly young ones?
If you have wondered this then please refer to your post on Sept 28, 2009, 11:56pm for a good example.
Whats the point in being so aggressive and aiming this exactly at who and why?
(the above are rhethorical questions)
I would like to see an end to this kind of nonsense being aired- its just one splash of water in a sea of whinge and negativity with no point to it other than to vent some personal frustration.
If you or anyone els for that matter happens to have issues with anyone in the athletics community. May i suggest that you approach them directly and deal with it there and then, its far more effective! and that way everyone els who is not concerned never needs to be exposed to it!
If i was a novice athlete or coach looking in here for the first time in need of some advice, i think after reading that kind of ranting i would not bother again!!!!!!!
I'm going to be bold now and maybe burn some bridges (but i really fon't care because it needs to be said) but there are 3 or 4 fairly regular posters on here that do the exact same thing. Maybe not every week or even month but often enough to ensure that between them there is always some crap flying around. Sorry to pick you out of the bunch on this occasion but i think we all know who i'm talking about.
I expect this post to be followed up with a stream of offended replies now. Please note, I'm not directly trying to offend anyone just to point out the plain truth that is very apparent and going largely unsaid. If you are offended by this post then take a moment to think why before you reply to it...
Wouldn't it be nice to have some relevant discussions about javelin throwing and maybe some positively charged banter going on.....
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