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Post by nije on Sept 28, 2006 10:54:29 GMT 1
Crickey - don't I go on!
Basically, though - I've said you have to be conditioned for throwing and I am pretty confident about how to get fit for the event. However, there are many roads to Rome so follow one that suits you. What me and Tys did/do for example works i.e. it improves conditioning and strength levels. Incidentally, Tyson became stronger than basically all of the athletes who worked with local HPC who were and had been traing full time for several years over the space of 3 months, and could argue that his lifting techniques were far in advance of anything you saw in there, which probably says alot about their strength programmes and perhaps about some of their lack of progression.
I may be back in the midlands soon so would be glad to hook up with some of the old boys I used to train and train with.
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Post by wez on Sept 28, 2006 11:32:35 GMT 1
Nije,
I'm well aware of your credentials so don't take this the wrong way as i'm only looking for some answers but i still don't really get the point unless my session plan wasn't clear.
I think my explanation didn't quite come across so this is what i actually do in 1 weights session although i didn't include it all in the first plan- what i call 4 core lifts including pullover and 4 auxilliary lifts or 3 and 5 by your definition.
3x6 Snatch (power), Back jerk, Back squat (full), bent arm pullover (suspended)1x10 Disc rotations 20kg, curling back raises 25kg, crossed arm flies 10kg, straight leg raises (3 second hold)
It takes me between 90 and 120 mins to do depending if i am doing 3 or 5 sets per lift. Looking at the difference between one of my sessions or one of yours/TysonJ makes me wonder 2 things. Firstly how can you do that huge session in 90 mins given that you need 2 mins rest between sets and secondly why do you actually need to do so many auxilliary exercises?
In my mind the auxilliries are only there to balance your muscle groups/defend against injury and add some specific strength tuning.
To be honest if i were to do that session, by the time i had finished my core lifts i would already be on the edge of exhaustion and anything following would be a way below the levels of intensity i am normally capable of. Ontop of that i'm fairly sure that session would take me way over 2 hours to do.
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Post by slinger on Sept 28, 2006 14:37:22 GMT 1
i only ever and tbh other athletes of a very high standard too that i've heard of do/did [in my case] maybe snatch or clean, bench or incline, some form of squat/lunge, a form of pull over and maybe a couple of auxiliary/specific to re-balance any weakness exercises for maybe 3 - 5 sets, depending on reps and %........all in all with appropriate warm ups and rest [again this factor depends on what the emphasis is, SO up to 4 - 5 mins per set] a session like this would last easy up to an hour and a half.......maybe longer if any core work was to be tied in.......
wez wrote......."In my mind the auxiliaries are only there to balance your muscle groups/defend against injury and add some specific strength tuning" - agree.
........often for me they were "clingy band" ex's for the shoulder........hey, they must have worked i never ever did hurt my shoulder!!! - i don't need big barbells and dumbbells to look cool! ;D
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Post by slinger on Sept 28, 2006 17:17:30 GMT 1
just something which got me thinking a little.......[yeah, i know steady now!]
tyson wrote.....
"Clean, Snatch Squat Bench Seated shoulder press Chest Flies tricep pull-overs tricep extensions bicep curls leg extensions hamstring curls calf raises"
besides the couple of olympic lifts [clean and snatch] these are very much body building exercises, yes.......during the winter most athletes will want to enter a stage of hypertrophy, but is this what was done all winter? i don't know, maybe the individual needed to increase muscle mass? - just a couple of interesting questions, sorry to be nosey, but like it's been said many roads lead to rome....... ;D
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Post by nije on Sept 28, 2006 17:41:18 GMT 1
Going around in circles. Tyson described the sort of session he does and did adn the auxilleries are usually worked antagonistically (super sets) such as leg ext then leg curls rest then go again and also compound sets (doing two biceps exercises consecutively). 8 - 10 reps not necessarily exercises. I may have done up to 8 auxilleries if I was feeling particularly keen
Here is what I'll do tonight
3 set of h clean 3 x 5 3 sets of snatch balance 3 x 5 3 sets of snatch 3 sets of bench 6- 10 3 sets straight arm pull over, 3 x 8 3 sets of bent arm pull over 3 x 8 flies x 3 peck deck x 3 biceps x 2 ex 3 x 10 triceps x 2 ex 3 x 10 Lat raise 3 x 10 alternating with lat pull downs MAybe some jav puls on the cross cabble machine abs and back 3 sets each
off to rugby afterwards (something I find far more tiring)
This takes an hour or so with the auxilleries cracking through at a good pace. The hard stuff is the first 5 core's but I enjoy O Lifting and bench.
This takes me less than an hour when I'm on my own and with tyson it'd take about 1.5 hours with the aerobic stuff put in.
When we trained at Birmingham sports centre, me and ty were basically the only one really training hard and getting on with it while other guys were standing about doing the odd set or two - and we would make comments to each other about it.
AS far as Wez is concerned if you are telling me you do 5 exercises in a weights session 3 - 4 sets great. Stick with it if it is working for you. The session that a few of you claim you cannot do is fine. All I know is that I can do it, Tys does it, and many other people before do it including Glen Smith Scott Rider and and several other poeple who I have trained with who are pretty strong with scott snatching 140 for 3 and Glen lifting 185kg clean - and we both followed a similar programme given us by max jones.
I am not suggesting that you don't train hard enough, but if this was a sprinting forum - I am sure people would be having a pop at them for being lazy and not trying hard enough. I trained pretty hard and got reasonably strong and am content that is what I achieved. Why not try that session - and see how you feel afterwards. If it is beyond you then maybe you aren't fit enough to hang with me in the weights room!
Or maybe I've done too many weights in my time!
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Post by TysonJ on Sept 28, 2006 18:50:09 GMT 1
Well... what can I say this is the only way I like to train . All I can say is that the weight sessions that I do work for me and may not work for other people. I always concentrate on good technique on all olympic lifts and I never feel fatigued while doing weights. One thing that nije has taught me is the intensity of the sessions I never really stand around alot in the weights room and in truth that session would take me 1H30m to complete. For example my main session on a tue/thur would consist of - 400 medicine ball throws light jav ball throwing overhead/caber shot throws hurdle drills S.A.Q drills jumps in sand pit maybe some x-over practice and finish off with some sprints during this time of year I would also add a circuit at the end of the session. But don't forget I have all the time in the world to rest because I am a student lol. Maybe if i had a full-time job this would be hard to do. Nije remember the beach weights lol ;D OOh my, i forgot to put in the snatch balance one of my favourite and best exercises in the gym Peace
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Post by TysonJ on Sept 28, 2006 20:10:27 GMT 1
Here I go another post. i was just reading through the posts and people were saying that they would be fatigued if they did that much in 1 session. Well I always start with all the olympic lifts first as to ensure I can do them with the correct technique. followed by bench/inclined bench then squat/ front squat/snatch balance, tricep pull-overs/straight arm pull-overs and the rest of the weights there in my opinion are just for conditioning the body. And to be honest I always finish the sessions feeling sharp and wanting to do more!! ;D by the way I am 6ft2 and weigh about 13st11lb so i am not some big hulking guy bulging with muscle. (even after doing all of these weights lol). I can also say the only injury I have ever had so far is with my adductor and have never been injured in the weights room *touch wood*
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Post by slinger on Sept 28, 2006 20:35:20 GMT 1
Session 2, med ball, hurdle session [Thursday]
Warm up……..
o 400m jog, o stretch all body parts [10 minutes] o footwork drills, 8 exercises X 2,
session exercises…….
o 6 – 8 medi ball exercises, utilizing power and core strength o 10 X 1.3kg, 10 X 1 kg, ball throws o 6 X hurdle exercises, core, flexibility and co-ordination o 4 X plyo’s. o 6 X progressive sprints.
picked mike up at 6ish....started at about 6.20 - 6.30pm done by 5 to 8........so about an hour and a half.
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Post by Jim on Sept 29, 2006 8:45:15 GMT 1
Tyson/Nige what is snatch balance?
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Post by wez on Sept 29, 2006 11:03:54 GMT 1
mmm i think i might not be man enough to hang with Nije in the Gym... BUT my program has worked for me quite well so far, so until i find myself stagnating i will stick with it.
BUT- I have changed the focus for my training this year anyway- whereas in the last 2 years since i started training again i was prioritising increases in the weights room and building rest periods around being fresh for that. This year I am prioritising plyometrics, the funny thing is that since i've been doing this my weight lifting has improved too even though i have only lifted once every 2-3 weeks!
Many roads to Rome etc and we are all different creatures also. Cheers for the input though its great to know that there are other ways of doing things. Good thread this.
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Post by TysonJ on Oct 1, 2006 20:42:16 GMT 1
Basically Jim, Snatch balance is when you have the bar behind your back like you would if you were doing squats, then you push the bar above your head (like when you do a back jerk) and do a deep squat at the same time. It sounds kinda weird lol but it works wonders for the legs.
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Post by Administrator on Oct 1, 2006 21:00:00 GMT 1
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Post by TysonJ on Oct 1, 2006 21:25:14 GMT 1
LoL thanks James My explanation was quite poor so just watch the vid. ;D (By the way I usually put my feet a lot wider than that as it works the adductors aswell) Anyone else got any unique exercises that they do?? (weights or track drills) Mine is the javelin throw using the cross cable machines. This is by far the best exercise lol.
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Post by lifebeginsat40 on Oct 2, 2006 14:51:39 GMT 1
Day 1 week 1for me today, this is going to be a long hard winter, I hope to be able to "make it"!
1st thing to do for me is going to be a quad test, then do one every six weeks to monitor performance.
Gym Work
I am going to have to ease into the work for the 1st few sessions before being able to max it out.
Bench Flat & Incline Dumbell Bench Press over Gym Ball lighter weights Squats Pull Overs Leg Raises Abs (as much as possible every day!)
4 sets, 6 sets, 75% capability.
Swim
Day 2
Medball Work
Circuits followed by Basketball
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Post by wez on Oct 2, 2006 15:12:48 GMT 1
If i were you i'd do away with one of the bench exercises and replace it with power clean or power snatch- these are far supeior power building exercises and are more specific to jav or infact any field events www.brianmac.demon.co.uk/weight.htmFor technical explanations see link above. and an amateur vid of snatch here www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjTohJdql-w
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