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Post by slinger on Aug 31, 2006 20:25:02 GMT 1
....hope that helped!
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Post by petsku on Aug 31, 2006 21:10:04 GMT 1
Actually I haven't done any snatches in 3 years now. It wasn't good for my shoulder (ac-joint) and at the same time i discarded bench press for the same reason. Everybody also in Finland are saying that snatch is the best move and it can be that for most of throwers but I can tell you that you can get along also without it.
My favourite lift is back jerk and in my opinion it is much more event spesific for jav than snatch. Actually the move is quite close to javelin throwing. Think about yourself... In snatch you are doing the muscle work to the opposite way to javelin pull, but in jerk the move is up. And can you name a better exercise for training a block than back jerk?
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Post by slinger on Aug 31, 2006 21:40:01 GMT 1
i think the actual neural recruitment and sequencing is similar to javelin, hence it's popularity........
yeah, agree, infact i'd go as far and say you can throw quite far without doing any weights, personally i rank actual throwing of javelins, throwing of various implements, medicine ball exercises and jumps ahead of weight lifting..............personally i'd only add weightlifting to a programme if the individual's time allowed so.....but again nothing is in stone and of course individuals needs are paramount.
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Post by lifebeginsat40 on Sept 1, 2006 0:31:16 GMT 1
i think the actual neural recruitment and sequencing is similar to javelin, hence it's popularity........ needs are paramount. Look at Slinger, that is some impressive language! ;D
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Post by wez on Sept 1, 2006 9:09:21 GMT 1
Phil, if you look at my schedule i have actually included cleans on wednesday- but that is intended only as a support session. I will concentrate on them being very fast, relaxed as possible and correct as i will be treating the other lifts on that day. If i make improvements then i can't complain but friday and monday are the real days of the beast!
You mention that you prefer actual javelin throwing to weights. I have to say that i LOVE both, but my tolerance to jav is quite low. 2 sessions per week is enough to injure me and even 1 hard session per week will leave me quite banged up. Thats why i concentrate on the stuff which is safer for me. Weights and medball.
The point of this year for me is aquisition of raw power. I am aiming to gain 2.5kg per lift per month while at the same time increasing my specicifc strength and acceleration with the varying ball weights.
I have ended this season with a technique that i am quite happy with so am not so worried about it anymore. The problem for me this season has been the lack of static strength in my legs, (i threw 56.50m this week without planting my left foot or pulling the jav over- just the intitial pull and hip reflex) i will fix that and come back next year with a huge Pb ;D
A couple of other things to mention that i didn't include in my schedule- i will also play badminton once per week probably thursday and also monday and friday i always do some injury prevention exercises and core strength stuff, disc rotations, back raises, leg raises, cross arm flies, additional stretching etc
Patience- i too have trained in a low ceilinged gym in the past. It is possible to perform a kneeling snatch, its actually very good as you are forced to fully use your hips with the bar otherwise you get 0 momentum and can lift nothing
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Post by Patience on Sept 1, 2006 10:56:56 GMT 1
Cheers Wez. How low was your ceiling? I can touch mine without having to stand on my toes!
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Post by wez on Sept 1, 2006 11:01:20 GMT 1
it was about 8 feet so annoyingly just too low. Although if i aligned the plates between the beams i could do back jerk when including a dip. i have tried kneeling back jerk aswell by the way- but its very tough on the knees as you generate alot of initial force downwards- so wear knee pads or use thick mats if you try that.
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Post by slinger on Sept 1, 2006 12:36:48 GMT 1
beat this!!! - i had to lift in a 12' X 8' wooden shed, with wooden floors.................erm not the best!!! i could do everything except obviously snatch as i could only just stand up in the middle of the roof as near the walls it would obviously slant........horrible to lift in tbh, hence why i loved throwing javelins sooo much!!!
btw i'd love to see a kneeling snatch....... ;D
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Post by Big C on Sept 1, 2006 12:40:05 GMT 1
Same problem when i was at doncaster rugby club. built a whole new facility with loads of olympic bars and weight. All that effort and a 7 foot ceiling.
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Post by Big C on Sept 1, 2006 16:13:15 GMT 1
My Training Plan(ish) This will be mainly the conditioning side to my training. i'll leave the technical side to my coach, les hatton, as he's got a better eye than me.
oct - mid nov: General conditioning - this work will prepare me for the power and strength work i'll be doing later on
gym1. all of these will be 3 sets of 12-15 (build up capillary base so the muscles can get enough oxygen in later stages of training) with 2 min rest, gradually moving to sets of 6-8. ------------------- 1 Leg Squat Side Lunge Front Lunge Deadlift ----------------- inclined DB bench (1 arm) Bench press with weight only on one side Cable pulls (through jav range of motion) Single arm pull overs Bent over row ------------------
Gym 2 ----------------- Step ups Front Squat Side Lunge Back squat. ------------------ inclined DB bench (1 arm) Shoulder press Woodchop Pull overs Bent over row. ------------------ Track Foot drills over 50-80m
fast stride runs 150-200-250-200-150 ------------------- Throwing- do what im told to do
mon - light running/rowing tues - gym 1 thus - throw fri - gym 2 sun - track
mid nov - march ish
Gym Selection from these exercises (2 from each section) varying starting with 3x6 on each exercise and bringing it down to 3x3 with planty of rest. (5mins) --------------------- Snatch clean Double Split snatch Power lunges DB Snatch Jump squat High Pulls ---------------------- Front squat followed with jumps Lunge followed by jumping jacks Deadlift followed by jumps Back squat followed by jumps ---------------------- Incline bench throws(using smith for safety) Pull over throws with smith Push Press ---------------------- Incline DB bench single arm Incline bench Incline pec flies (for my reserve discus) Bent over rows Pull Overs ----------------------- Heavy sack (20kg) throws. 3 of these side lunge to over shoulder Kneeling Hammer throw Between legs and over shoulder Throw forward from side Rugby pass ------------------------
Plyo ---------------------------- 3 sets of each with plenty rest between
hop step jump hop hop step jump hop hop step step jump hop hop step step jump jump
Douple foot depth jump 3 x 8 Side steps for distance into pit.
Over head medball 3 x 8 + same as heavy sack but with 5k Med ball. all other jav related med ball throws
4x 30 sprints. ------------------------------- mon - light running/rowing tues - throw(tech) - Gym wed - eat spleep thus - throw fri - Plyo sat - eat sleep. sun - throw/Gym -------------------------------
March to end of season.
mon - Gym tues - throw thus - Plyo - throw fri - eat sleep. sat - compete
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Post by Big C on Sept 1, 2006 16:28:50 GMT 1
When i get to the gym, i dont really know what im going to do, do i use the pooling idea. as long as i take 2 exercises from each pool, i'll be getting everything i need without getting bored and used to the same exercises. I use a weight at which i could not do anymore of the 6 or 12's. The body needs to seriously strugle on the last one in each set for any adaptation to occur.
the one handed and the lob sided training is for core stability and core activation so the body can handle the sack work later on.
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Post by slinger on Sept 1, 2006 19:50:56 GMT 1
one of my little ideas for the winter is that we will throw left handed, we do anyway but sporadically, maybe some at the end or just mucking about doing target practice etc but i want to have a period of time where the throwing is 50% of either hand and work on the very same technical issues............i've never done it before but it's a little idea i have and i think it may be a little gem!
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Post by petsku on Sept 1, 2006 20:06:50 GMT 1
I'll share you some thougs or aphorisms of Seppo Räty. These are translated from finnish "throwers from east" website where you can find also javelin test (www.kolumbus.fi/pekorho)
Seppos tips:
"You have to concentrate #### well for every exercise because then you are able to do it very well. I see often that even athletes in high level goes to training place and start to read from paper maked by coach what to do. I think that training like that wont develop. When I go to gym I know exactly what i'm going to do even if my training program made by my coach, consist only "power" . I have planned all before exercise. Only such program that athlete has fully internalized develops.
"when you are training you have to monitor yourself all the time and aspire to balance in training. For example when I am throwing javelin balls (1-5kg) I keep brakes between and think what i'm going to do in next round. I change ballsizes, control technique and increase power little by little. All the time I monitor myself that when my tecnique is breaking down. And when my technique is breaking down I return back to basics and increase again power little by little. My goal is to throw the best power possible with perfect technique"
"you have to do your training diary as good as possible. I was probably even too fanatic for doing that. I had it with me in every single training session and i wrote up there everything i did and feeled. Well, when something was starting to go wrong it was the best manual where to look how I fixed the problem last time."
"Javelin throwers left leg is important. You do the most of the work with your left leg. In runup's last steps left leg pull and push. Your right leg just creeps behind. So it is worth to train running sideways (crossteps) a lot. Your left leg must endure power lot more than right."
"when you are throwing cricketball and your trainingpartner afraids to catch it up it is time to proceed to javelin throwing"
"When you are satisfied after a well done exercise you have to remember that someone else, probaply your worst enemy made that same exercise even better - being satisfied is partly giving up!."
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Post by petsku on Sept 1, 2006 20:13:24 GMT 1
one of my little ideas for the winter is that we will throw left handed, we do anyway but sporadically, maybe some at the end or just mucking about doing target practice etc but i want to have a period of time where the throwing is 50% of either hand and work on the very same technical issues............i've never done it before but it's a little idea i have and i think it may be a little gem! we used to do it in Finnish junior camps. We also did runups backwards
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Post by slinger on Sept 1, 2006 20:46:55 GMT 1
excellent, excellent! i'm sooooo loving this................
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