Acceleration Into the Throw

[dobster]

A quick straw poll:

How much emphasis would you place on a jav thrower accelerating into the throw - in particular the final 3 or 4 strides?

Tom

[lifebeginsat40]

dobster said:

A quick straw poll:

How much emphasis would you place on a jav thrower accelerating into the throw - in particular the final 3 or 4 strides?

Tom

Tom

This was something I concentrated a hell of a lot on last year with Sadie. With no run up and throwing of only 5 strides, there was a huge emphasis to "attack" the line as fast as possible. The same goes for a full run up in my opinion, as you are building up speed (controlled & rythmic)along the run up, that speed is the converted to energy to make a better throw.....no use slowing down just before as the run up has been wasted. IMO of course!

[slinger]

greatly, but not particularly the last few strides at all, for me it's a long gradual acceleration, this allows a higher overall run up speed, from my experience.

i don't like the idea of particularly just the last few strides being quicker, people who i see who are of this trend often think they are increasing run up speed, but are merely just doing quicker but more choppy X overs with less range - sort of false thoughts.

[dobster]

Phil, Chris - quite agree. In my mind I think that the move in the transition to the XOvers and into the run off position should have the main impetus of the acceleration into the throw. But for some it can be difficult to manage, hence perhaps Phil's view of the whole approach?

Tom

[nije]

I am a great believe in accellerating into the throw but the main consideration is that you can handle the speed and not end up collapsing your left leg giving you a soft base to throw off.

Here's another Q

Why is it that us javelin throwers have to keep both feet down to maintain the power position and while we throw to be of the most benefit when shot and discus throwers can 'jump' deliver i.e. wiht btht feet off the ground at release and throw further? I hae ahad afew ring men give me a few answers but not entirely convincing. I teach jump adn reverse rather than fixed feet for competition throws although fixed feet is a good drill for both but don't really have a useful expalantiaon why - hence ask y'all out there?

[lifebeginsat40]

dobster said:

Phil, Chris - quite agree. In my mind I think that the move in the transition to the XOvers and into the run off position should have the main impetus of the acceleration into the throw. But for some it can be difficult to manage, hence perhaps Phil's view of the whole approach?

Tom

Yeah, as I said. it has to be one smooth controlled rythmic run up, but still has to finish faster than you started. With a short run up, or no run up at all, more emphasis then is put on the final 3 or 4 strides as thats all there is! ;D

Its one of the things I have spent a lot of time over, obviously because of Sadies situation last year. The greatest benefit to Sadie last year, was her ability to really cook it going into the line. Of course you have got the problem of sometimes collapsing to the left leg, or throwing your whole body of balance if you put TOO much emphasis at final delivery. IMO

[slinger]

my thinking about run up speed is this, it's to obtain maximal speed or velocity if you want to be precise ;D to both javelin and athlete, which can be then transfered to the javelin during delivery. It is also my thinking that due to the complex nature of running during X overs it is very difficult to actually massively accelerate, this is totally due to the oddness of body positioning, hips, shoulders etc and the actual action of the withdrawl of the implement too adds more problems. Observing elite athletes it's noticeable that in the last 3 steps made very little acceleration is actually made, but rather and more importantly is no DE-acceleration has occurred, that for me and my throwing is far more important that an a conscious attempt to make the last 3 or so steps rapid. For example my maximum run up velocity is 6m/s i would want to be at this speed just a stride or so after withdrawl, it would be my goal to still be traveling at 6m/s at impulse stride take off, of course there are still other factors of transferring that speed from final right foot contact to left foot plant and then further more regarding transfering speed via plant but that's another area for debate altogether.

the right foot imo must remain in contact at the back through delivery is a simple on i feel, it's to maintain the tension that runs through the body during the famous bow or inverted "C" position, if the right foot loses contact, tension is lost - if tension is lost, then power is lessened greatly.

[slinger]

nije, can you clarify you meant what i assumed you meant, which was why should we keep the right foot in contact with the ground during delivery? cheers....also what reason do you think why it is important, what reasons did the other heavy throwers give too would be interesting hear?

[nije]

shot and discus throwers - if not fixed feet at delivery, throw with both feet off the ground when reversing or 'jump' delivering - unlike us who keep contact throughout the throw. e.g. hoffa and co in teh shot and all good reverse discus throwers whoare off thte ground on delivery.

It is interesting as it is a different set of biomechanical principles on the delivery phase.

[slinger]

shot and discus? bah, not interesting to me! ;D

[tshield]

Regarding Nige's interesting question...

I agree with Slinger about the benefit of the bow and the right leg driving against the right hip - once off the ground the pelvis becomes an unstable base for the trunk. However, there might be more to it...

My guess is that shot and discus guys are traveling so slowly at delivery that they can still accelerate their implements a little more by leaving the ground (jumping). The jav thrower however can't add speed by jumping - the hand is moving so fast just prior to release that jumping adds nothing while having the negative effect on the 'bow'.

My guess is that their is a simpler way to say this...

[sam]

i actually think that is a very good response there tshield!!

[slinger]

for the record guys, what's the recognised theory on this idea by world class coaches, athletes, bio-mechanists etc?

[mikejones5]

the worst thing to do is belt it down the run way then try and move your feet quicker for more speed in the X overs because by the time you come to throw the javelin you knacked and tend to collapse

so what i do is a nice smooth run up almost a bounce down the run ways then into the transaction and cross overs speed up but keep my stride length long so i get a nice impulse and a nice big plant but with the speed i pick up from the cross overs still have alot of emphasis behind the javelin when released.

but am still only young and still learning the technique so please quote me if i am wrong