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Post by lifebeginsat40 on Sept 12, 2007 16:58:29 GMT 1
The question I get asked most!
So, what ARE the biggest factors to getting the Javelin landing sticking in, or at least point first?
I know there are different characteristics of various Javelins, in particular the 700g. But what is the answer? ;D
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Post by slinger on Sept 12, 2007 18:18:53 GMT 1
this question could really have a whole host of different answers to correct the problem, it really could.
it could be the equipment you are using, for example a 30m javelin thrower throwing a diana 80m 600g javelin is a recipe for flat throws and disaster, even when thrown "correctly" and the javelin flighted well, it's therefore important that the thrower chooses a javelin suitable for their level of current ability and not one because it has nice colours that spiral up the thing.
it could just be chris, that the thrower has got it spot on......you see the 700 and a good one at that will always land very flat and often can be given a "flat throw red flag" due to officials' getting it wrong - this of course happens quite regular unfortunately, an experience which i'm sure most on here have experienced at some time......the 600 has less of a tendancy to land flat, but still does and often when athletes use a very high rated spear and say throwing 40 - 50m..ish - gold used a indra for her UK record of 65.05, which was peached and it stuck in.......the 800 has of course the least tendancy to land flat.
the wind conditions play a role here too, for example a very strong full on straight tailwind makes it very difficult to get a spear to fly correctly - the wind hits the full rear of the javelin and causes it to tail big time and as a result the javelin can land flat.
if the equipment the athlete is using is sound and weather conditions favourable then imo it tends to be that there is something not quite right with the way the athlete is delivering his/her power to the implement, this could be the athlete's control of the javelin or actual direction of power that is applied to the implement.........ensuring that the javelin remains stable with a high hand the back with the point "glued" next the eye line, ensuring during the actual delivery leading with the elbow the hand should follow a smooth up and over arc with no "tucking in" - these are basic technical fundamentals which should be adhered to to achieve an effecient delivery of the javelin in a way that enables it to fly correctly and then hopefully to land point first.
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Post by Patience on Sept 12, 2007 19:50:23 GMT 1
Or.... ;D ;D ;D Sorry, Chris. Childish of me, I know, but I couldn't resist. Anyway, for what it's worth, IMvHO, there seemed to be a lack of "oomph" and little follow through or what some people would call "hand flick" at the end. |
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Post by lifebeginsat40 on Sept 12, 2007 22:19:57 GMT 1
It was actually a "proper" question and was based on youngsters, so throwing 400, and 600.
I should have been more specific, as I know myself a whole host of answers. But it is THE question new people throwing Javelin ask....of course I could say, what you asking me for, I aint figured it out myself....especially if Sadie has the flag! ;D
I have figured out with the throwers I Coach, the biggest problem is low arm and bringing the arm round and not over the top to be the top culprit for a "Chris" landing!
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Post by lifebeginsat40 on Sept 12, 2007 22:21:14 GMT 1
Or.... ;D ;D ;D Sorry, Chris. Childish of me, I know, but I couldn't resist. Anyway, for what it's worth, IMvHO, there seemed to be a lack of "oomph" and little follow through or what some people would call "hand flick" at the end. Your quitr right too, I know there is no follow up whatsoever to my throw...I just stop dead!  I know what I am supposed to do, but it dont happen.......it will next year though!  |
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Post by thegodfather on Sept 12, 2007 22:33:20 GMT 1
we look forward to next year-all those PB'S
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Post by lifebeginsat40 on Sept 12, 2007 22:57:41 GMT 1
Thats for sure! |
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Post by jimevs on Sept 13, 2007 10:12:31 GMT 1
I agree, the cause of this can be many. Here's my take on some of the reasons.
1. Losing the point. Point rises too high and the throw is "under the point"so that the angle of the jav is higher than desired and the tail drags.
- Try and control the point until the very last moment to ensure the angle of the jav is correct upon release.
2. Throwing with a low elbow. Even with good point control, if the throw is made with the elbow comig round the side of the body rather than trying to push the elbow high then the angle of the javelin will again be higher than desired and the tail will drag.
- Whilst maintaining good point control, keep the hand high behind the body until release and try to brush the ear with your arm as you pass to ensure the elbow is high.
3. "Limp wrist". The angle that the javelin leaves the hand can be adjusted by the angle at the wrist. If the wrist is very loose and tiklts backwards, it is easy for the point to rise and the flight to be wrong as above.
- Ensure the wrist is firm and the hand position is correct through x-steps and release.
4. Not finishing the throw. As Patience mentioned, if you do not flick the wrist through and finish the throw correctly the flight may not be as good as desired.
- Try "stabbing" the spear a number of times to feel the difference when the wrist is flicked over the top - it should ensure the point is driven forwards and will fall down at the end of the flight.
5. Staying behind the throw. I find it hard to describe this one but I feel that when I sit back on the throw and do not push my chest and shoulder through, I am just pushing the javelin up into the air and not following through the full motion. Sometimes throwers throw from their left leg and stay behind it even after the throw. While it is possible to throw like this and throw over the top and through the point, I think it is much harder and there is a higher chance that the javelin will land flat.
- Try to use the body to push right through the motion of the throw and over the top of the throw not just upwards.
6. Make sure you have the right spear.
- Just because it is shiney or pink it won't nexessarily go further for the way you throw. My personal feeling is for anyone throwing an 800g jav is that an Orange Apollo spear (cheap club spear) is more than sufficient for people throwing up to 50m and will land point first moreso than most other javs. Not sure about 600/700 as I've never thrown anything other than Apollo club spears in competition as a youngster.
7. Throwing to high. Especially in headwinds, the hright of the throw as well as the angle often causes the spear to go up and up and stall in the air.
- Try pushing the javelin lower than normal, you'll be surprised at the result and with a good release angle you may even throw further (700g especially!).
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Post by nije on Sept 13, 2007 11:57:31 GMT 1
I think all the points have been made here - but the rating of the javelin (especially the aeerodynamic ones) will contribute to most peoples down fall. It relates to the distance between the centre of gravity and centre of pressure I believe. High inertia and low inertia javs were investigated at one stage but the general rule of thumb is to experiment and find which jav you feel comfortable with. I always have been a sanvic man. Incidentally, Matti hasn;t thrown any flat throws with the 600g apart from a few dodgy decisions early season, and again at the jav fest the 600g and 700g stuck in. I think a tail wind with the 700g would encourage flat throws though.
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Post by Patience on Sept 13, 2007 11:59:39 GMT 1
The normal green 600g Apollo lands point first where the 55 rated one with the green go faster arrows wouldn't.
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Post by slinger on Sept 13, 2007 13:36:05 GMT 1
nije has mentioned throwing 700's here and from my experience he's spot on about a tailwind not particulary being helpful to the 700's characteristics - very much the same way of the old spec 800, anyway a bit of a slinger tip for any decent 70og throwers is to have a couple of javs at your disposal - one that suits a headwind and one that is perhaps better in a tailwind for example the nordic eagle isn't particulary great in tailwind conditions yet in a headwind that baby will float for england! the nordic rapid 80 is also a great headwind jav, but actually flies well in a tailwind too, the same can be said of the pegasus.
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Post by lifebeginsat40 on Sept 13, 2007 15:52:53 GMT 1
Thanks Guys.....and Gals!  |
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Post by mikejones5 on Mar 27, 2008 23:36:45 GMT 1
if you are throwing a javelin suited to the distance you are throwing and the right weight for you and it is landing flat try to keep your arm straight through your X overs and final plant then when released whip your arm through and flick your wrist that should help the javelin land point first in some cases
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I know what I am supposed to do, but it dont happen.......it will next year though! 
