Good athlete, good coach?

[Mack]

Or good coach, good athlete?

I'm currently off work recovering from elbow surgery so I have had a little time reading some posts.

One comment that keep coming up is.

'I coached this person and that person to this and that level' 'They are my athlete'

Does that mean the coach is good or just lucky to have a good athlete.

I know what some will say... I have done this and that... this person was only throwing 30m/50m when they came to me and now they are throwing 48/70m.

Now this is not aimed any one so I hope no one gets their lycra in a twist.

My pb started at about 35m and is now 74m. Does that mean my coach (my Dad) is responsible for this?

My view is this

I started at my local track while at school. I'm not going to say I've done this and won that, people know what I've done, but over the years I have always had the support from my Dad who continues to coach me.

I have spent time training and being coached by (what I beleve to be) the best coaches in the country. I was coached for a long time by John W and I trained once with Tim N years ago when I visited him in Norwich and he coached Mark and Stuart. Mike MC has been kind enough to help me out over the years. I have had coaching from Steve and John T, and most recently from Mark R (with some excellent help and input from Goldie).

Each time my Dad has been their (at the beginning to drive etc but that then turned to listen and pick up what was being said).

The sum of all coaching has been down to a culmination of all types of coaching from all types of people and over a number of years. Now I'm still finding new things that work for me due to my abilities and inabilities.

In all, not one person (how ever much time put in) is responsible for those throwing far. One little thing can make a big difference. I have a great support structure around me (family, training partner, coach)

I think we need to remember this some times.

On another note... The powers that be (UKA, England athletics etc) need to think further ahead than 2012 and use it to make athletics a high profile sport in the UK (what better publicity than the Olympics) they seem to do this slightly with funding for the young ones, but the best chance for 2012 would be to flood ALL events with UK athletes (not a token of 25). The seniors are those already in place and some are close to making their big mark and breaking in to the International level. Put the effort in those people to make 2012 what it should be.

Neil

[Caroline]

I think any coach who gets to train an athlete with some talent is lucky enough to have something to work with. However, I do think that a massive proportion of what makes a good athlete is down to attitude. I'm sure that most of the coaches on here have had athletes who come into the WOFT category (Waste of Flipping Time is the polite version), and all the physical talent in the world won't make a great athlete out of one who 'doesnt like winter training' or is lazy.

Also, anyone training youngsters will find that unless they are doing something dire, they will get pbs every year, simply because they are growing and getting stronger! You only have to look at the expanse of pink on the PoT website under U17 boys to see that.

Agree totally with your last point too, Neil. Why 25..? it's not as if they have to pay vast amounts of money for airfare......

[carrie]

I do get annoyed when you have someone going about how many English Schools and national age group champions they have coached over a short period of time. Another factor in your success as a coach is the size of the talent pool available to draw from. Someone who coaches in London will have an edge just from the population size as compared to someone coaching out in the sticks. Add to that the draw of competing sports for your talent such as football and rugby.

And I whole heartedly agree with attitude is everything. I don't care whether the athletes I coach make it to English schools or not. I just want them to improve and enjoy what they do. And they can only see the real extent of their potential if they put the work in.

[wez]

Surely its quite simple, a good coach is able to improve pbs or atleast consistency of their athlete no matter what the ability level.

Their are so many human factors involved aswell as already touched on above, my experience is a bit like Mack's. I wouldn't be able to pin point any one of the people i have been coached by over the years as being responsbile for my technque. Its largely just a refinement of how i naturally throw anyway and nobody taughty me that except myself. its just a shame my natural technique doesn't suit jav so well....

If you add all the adjustments and some that i still aspire to do its worth maybe 20% extra distance on a good day.

[slinger]

Often for either the athlete or coach it's simply being in the right place at the right time with regards finding a coach or an athlete of note and it's often more likely than not a combination of both. That's the case up here as there are literally NO coaches for javelin - nevermind good ones.

I agree though there are a few posts on here that often state who they have coached to what level etc - now I admit to not reading every post too thoroughly, but at times it seems people go off on a tagent to state this fact. I agree with Carrie, it doesn't mean alot and kids can often do well on their own - I'm not a particulary good athlete as such and deffo was not a beast as a boy and since I was 17 [11 years ago....] no lad has thrown further than I did and other than having an introduction to the event at 13-15, I did that on my own [this isn't blowing my own trumpet, just using myself as an example] - basically what I'm saying is given a 'lal bit of talent [me and an honest appraisal of me] and a HUGE enthusiam you can do quite well......now if I was being coached at that time people may say it's the coach or the coach may say it is down to them, but I'm not so sure.....at the end of the day it's the athlete that throws the stick not the coach! LOL

[Caroline]

Yes, very true, which is why I think EA has thrown the baby out with the bathwater by focussing totally on coaches and not on athletes.... yes it's important to support, help and train coaches, but, as you say, at the end of the day it's athletes that produce medals!

[jeremy]

I have to take full reposnsibility for all of Mack's successes as a javeliner; clearly he has played his part in being a finely tuned athlete.

One thing that has made life so easy for us to dominate the event over the years is the large amounts of cash that the NGB's have pushed our way. They are always asking what our requirements are, kept us abreast of the latest techniques worldwide, provided interesting trips to meet and learn from the javeliners of other countries.

They've always given us plenty of niotice of when the fixtures are, when we maybe called upon to compete. They've booked all the travel, the accommodation, the warm weather trips. They've given us access to the latest footwear, spears, lycra, mink g-strings, aftershave products and chalk.

We've been invited in to all the schools to try and make the sport popular with 2012 around the corner. No stone has been left unturned to see how best we can serve the wider community. We meet once a quarter with all the other javelin coaches and their throwers so that we can learn and continually improve on the structures that John Trower has put in place. It's actually quite nice to know that all the javelin community has now elected its own committeee so that only a few need to liase with the courier bikes at UKA HQ to make sure that cheques get biked to the stars of tomorrow.

So on behalf of neil and myself, Thanks !

[nije]

A good coach consistently produces good athletes - not just one here and one there and also a good coach is usually demonstrated by the athletes having good techniques. We didn't used to have particularly good facilities but we got by -now we have great facilites but we aren't any better overall with the same coaches basically so what is lacking is the talent and in mick, tessa and fatima and steve (winners of global medals - and nbearly goldie now) we were blessed.