Apprentice coaches

[nije]

Have you seen these adverts on UKA website for jumps and hurdles coaches paying 25-30k to work under a mastercoach. I wonder if they will do that for the throws!?

They are obvioulsy looking for someone young such as a retiring athlete.

I think it is a good idea but the mastercoach or master coaches choices will be the main selling or stumbling point. Current NEC's would probably be the master coach and I suppose that they are not bad choices. It will be interesting how far they take it in terms of events though. ie. are the throws going to be left out again?

[sam]

retiring athletes? i thought you said young....?

[nije]

That is young - you cannot expect to take on a 23/24year old who would lack experience of throwing as well as coaching at such a yong age

[sam]

when i was 22 i'd coached 2 english schools participants one of which won a medal. A national champion, uk record holder (albeit with a heavier weight for the agegroup) uk number1. I had a background in athletics from the day i was born, trained with a world record holder and worked with numerous other coaches. I had sports leadership qualifications and at least an A Level in Physical Education. I don't think it's fair to say that someone at 23/24 wouldn't be good enough for the role, afterall it is an "apprenticeship"

[wez]

All that said Sam, if i were picking someone to help guide our event in the UK i would go for somone a bit older. eg 30+ Apart from all the stuff you need to know about your event you also need to have some good life skills (and some basic wisdom) to be able to deal with the people side of things too.

There are exceptions to every rule, but i'm more with Nije on this one...

[Caroline]

I'm not sure that a background in athletics from the day you were born is something that would fit you for a job. For example, you could have parents that were doctors, and have been to hospital a few times, but you wouldnt necessarily be able to be a doctor yourself!

I agree that someone with more maturity would be a better choice, but perhaps the job title 'apprentice' is not a good one for this particular role?

[slinger]

Regarding what Wez said - this isn't an event lead for our country though is it? It's a role where no doubt they would be a development role aswell as coaching, that's what the "apprentice" aspect says to me....although it does sound a tad patronising! I'm sure a better job title could of been thought of.......25-30K isn't to be sniffed at though, sounds like it could be a good role, but I doubt it'd have much security!

I am with Sam in this, I don't think age has anything to do with it and there are a few 20 odd year olds in this country which I would suggest have the credentials for a job like this if a jav role came up.

[nije]

Sorry if it has hit a nerve with you Sam but I reiterate that even a 25 year old thrower would still possibly be too young as they first of all cannot demonstrate particular longevity as an athlete which is important as there are various stages you go through as a thorwer or athlete. There is nothing patronising either about suggesting that someone of this age is too young, it is an opinion and one that I think many would share and if anyone of sub 25 was made an apprentice, the majority would complain about these people being too young. Remember this is an apprentice to coach world class athletes and to be surrounded by world class athletes and coaches so they would have to have some sort of reasonabale record of achievement behind them already just to be taken seriously and also, the type of person applying for this position would most probably an ex athlete of note, prefereably with teaching experience i.e doing it every day for a number of years gaining experience of many age groups and sports as well as have already done some coaching and someone who has experience of high level athletics.

Being cynical - I could suggest this was a parachute structure for retirnig lottery funded athletes as I don;t know if anyone else has noticed, but UKA/Eng/Scot/Wales/Nireland is awash with employees from coaches, administrators to secretaries who were ex internatinal athletes!

Your coaching experience - esp with young athletes is possibly second to non for your age and in the jav community, the only thing you lack on your CV that others such as say Dave Parker or Sharpie for example is they have competed at a higher level and with the state of the post office at the moment I'd get an application form in ASAP when and if the apprenticeship comes up! Also they could look at you and think you have too much experience already and they'd go for someone just starting out like Phil who (correct me if I am wrong) hasn't really coached many so far - but has been training himself. 25-30k prices alot of older people (35+) out of the market as well!!

However, let's see what happens and go for it/good luck if it comes up!

[slinger]

I don't think you are being cynical Nije, you have probably hit the nail on the head with what you suggest could/probably would happen.

I think if Sam fancied the job he should go for it - a job doing something he loves, with possibilities of further development would be something very desirable. As for myself.....nah, I like being a lowly postman - no pressure Nije, just plodding along, living the simple life is for me mate!! Lasher I think has bigger fish to fry.

[nije]

HI All

I am not dissuading Sam at all, I was just trying to be pragmatic about it all and also trying to identify the sort of people - and not specifically them - who would suit the job. My one warning to anyone who wants to work for UKA etc is that they are not safe jobs that is why I haven't been interested in any of them (unless part time) as I am happy with what Iam doing, it is more stable and enjoyable (i.e. our S & C guy was hired and fired in 4 months!) and if you look at what is rumoured to have happended to Bob Weir, he has given all up to come back to the uk and within a year he has been fired (if that is the case) so it is not a particularly safe job.

AS I said the salary will dissuade many and who knows, you oculd be fired after a year because the master coach doesn't like you, you could be showing them up, you may not gell with who you are working with, or simply because after that year they decide you are not that material. The show apprentice starts with 15 and rejects 14 so not good odds!

[sam]

i am not applying for it i was just questioning the comment ath it wouldn't be suited to a 23/24yr old....

anyway it's too much of a pay cut for me just when i'm saving up for a deposit on a house..

[slinger]

No, I know you weren't trying to dissuade anyone Nije.

Sam oooh look at you "too much of a pay cut larry" over there!

...and there's me thinking that doing something you'd consider a hobby and something that probably costs you money, could actually be turned into something you get paid money to do.

30k a year up here anyway would be classed as a very good job, infact if I were to look in the job classifieds I'd have to be a well qualified person to be on something like that or work a shed load of hours a week doing something a tad less skilled. So for an APPRENTICE coach it's not bad money in my book.

[pj]

It's the old Norf 'n' Sarf divide again !! Expenses would be good.

[geoff]

Does anyone know how the salaried national coaches, development coaches and apprentice coaches will interact with other coaches? Will all talented athletes aged 14+ be transferred to these coaches? Will other coaches receive expenses, support, recognition and reward? How do we marry together the UKA professionals with other performance coaches?

If an apprentice coach (I have seen development coaches in some events advertised) and Master Coach (as I have seen in the job description) are based in say London, will that mean most or all talented athletes go to those coaches? So far javelin coach positions have not been advertised but if it happened how would javelin coaches in London feel about such an arrangement?

Why have we not been given details of the coaching structure? We will have athletics leaders and Level 1 coaches (assuming UKCC is adopted in some form) running community clubs. What about the local performance coaches taking athletes to national standards and international championships?

I hope there is a master plan that dovetails all this together!

[nije]

I think you are scare mongering a bit here Geoff - not like you!!! Alot of your fears i.e. your first paragraph and having to move to london for example are not situations that have occcured so far i.e. forced etc and if thye have, I would like to know an example. I listen to this sort of talk on other sites - but never any specific examples. Whilst looking at the throws community, I cannot think of anyone who has been forced to go anywhere or has moved to another coach (i.e different location) unless they have wanted to.

Also could you provide me with five - or at least one athlete who has been coached by a local performance coach to national and international standard who has then been REMOVED to a new UKA coach agaisnt their will. All I know is that I was probably in this situation with a couple of athletes I coach and this was not the case although it looked on the cards if you listened to the jungle drums.

£30k is a good wage for an apprentice btw - most lawyers only get 32k until they have done their two years articles. An engineer gets less than 10K as well in many places so the salary is quite generous.

I noticed that AD did quite a sensible thread about this and it is how do you decied how good someone is as a coach for say sprints or a techncial event. All the best sprints coaches seem to come from areas where there are high concentration of afro carribean's children. Not that I want to tar everyone with the same brush or suggest that all of these coaches are jsut relying on the natural talent but with the short sprints a higher percentage of the performaance is reliant upon nature rather than nurture adn as you go to the thorws evens for example this percentage swings far more to the nurture side because you have to be technically good. Apart from the film Jordie - I cannot think of many pople who were born to throw with unnatural techniques but can think of many who do what comes natural - run very fast from A - B! I think the biggest art of sprinting as a coach is not to mess the athlete up as so many seem to!