Advice needed on javelins

[joncon13591]

I'm in my 2nd year of U20 and throw just over 50. I've been using a pretty horrid polanik mark 2 for last season up to present and am looking to upgrade.

I've thrown one of the new steel airgliders and felt the difference- I now am set on something from Nordic. Even so, I've been advised to stay away from carbon ones when buying, even though they are supposedly better. Could anyone explain this one to me, because as far as I can see 800g is 800g?

I also do not see the difference (apart from paint job) in the champion and the airglider; they both have sharpened tips, yet there is a noticeable price difference.

Any advice would be appreciated, whether it be suggestions to buy or just facts about the different javs, or both!

Jon

[slinger]

hi jon,

not my spear of choice the nordic......but i will always recommend one to others, as when they make javelins they make them very consistenly and a champion will feel like any other champion etc - other manufacturers can't all claim to be this good.

steel v carbon v composite....

to start with most of the new carbons nowadays "apparently" have more flex than the original late 90's carbons - this is nordics i am talking about now and apparently the newer nordic carbons are quite like the composites that OTE make.

the idea behind manufacturing javelins from different materials or in some cases a mixture of different materials is that yes they all need to weigh such a weight, have a C of G that falls in a particular parameter and so on, but the reason was to try and dampen the javelins vibrations during flight - these vibrations...see this link to at around 38 secs onward to see words in pictures, the javelin btw is an orginal nordic orbit - not a champion, despite it's similar colour -

www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHQDx0N0P_Y&feature=related

these vibrations cause friction and of course drag.

the idea was that if a material could be used that has less flex or even flexed then quickly dampened such vibrations would be more ideal.

the only problem with such javelins is that they are not forgiving on strike like the javelin in the film is ie if you pull across the length of the implement the jav doesn't flex and give - so your elbow/shoulder takes the brunt of it...also a javelin that flexes like any steel one will correct itself mid flight more so than a carbon, thus being more forgiving distance wise if thrown badly.

steel javelins also vary in stiffness - the higher the rating the stiffer they tend to be for example the original red and silver OTE steel was one of, if not the stiffest steels - i would say the orbit and airglider are also a stiff steel.....but not harsh like carbon.

differences between steel champion and airglider is that the airglider is slightly thinner in it's shaft - the grip certainly is, it's also stiffer than the champ, the metal tip is also slightly longer than the champion's and apparently when nordic tested their javelins from their "javelin gun" the airglider goes furthest out of all the javs they have.

on a last note with carbons, as everyone seems to want one these days....

zelezny called it "the javelin for 100m" it is the javelin for the perfect throw - yes it is suggested at top end at best they can give 2 or 3m, but this really is the cherry on top of the icing on the javelin cake.

.....stick to steel javs and get a good one, like any of the top end nordics and you'll have the best tool for making the "javelin cake" - forget about the icing and cherries for now!

[sam]

i have a cracking picture from Halle where the thrower has got a nordic orbit carbon to bend incredibly... i'll try and upload tonight if i get the time

[benfisher]

How about this one. Slinger power Throwsfest 07

[slinger]

.....or lack of more like ben!

that's an OTE FX composite thrown there - they do bend, not as much as steel javelins, but their main characteristic is to bend on "strike" ie that pic of me and then mid flight dampen the vibrations much, much more than say a regular steel javelin.

like i said before sam, the newer carbons are like the FX's and "softer" than the original late 90's carbons.

a few familar faces in the background too on that pic of me!

i must also say getting a javelin to bend the most isn't what we are trying to do! - applying power as cleanly as possible is the goal, but i am also aware it is impossible to hit a javelin 100% clean.

[sam]

thats nothing.in the picture i have the orbit looks like an s!

[dobster]

Jon con - I have used both (Champ and Airglider) exclusively over the years. From what I have noticed is that you need to have a bit more of a cleaner hit with the airglider than the champ. But I think at your level that may not be too relevant. The Champ has a slightly chunkier grip than the airglider (unless that has changed) that allowed a bit more purchase on the spear. However, good use of tacky can overcome that.

For you, I would go for the champ - its a good versatile javelin for a broad range of abilities. It is forgiving enough that you wont do too much damage to yourself (unlike most carbons).

[joedund]

I have noticed that the champion is regarded as a headwind javelin and the airglider Is seen as a all wind javelin. Does this make much, if any difference or do they fly different.

[slinger]

nah, the blunt nosed tailwind/sharp point head wind idea was a sales gimmick by held who made OTE's.

[joedund]

So is the airglider the stiffest of the steel nordics then the orbit then the champion and they all can be thrown I'm all weather conditions and none will be effected

[slinger]

link to "discussion" on the blunt v sharp points of javelins so called "head and tail wind" javelins.

www.leshatton.org/Documents/AW_JavelinArticle_1105.pdf

[slinger]

Jun 5, 2009 11:56:51 GMT 1 dobster said:

Jon con - I have used both (Champ and Airglider) exclusively over the years. From what I have noticed is that you need to have a bit more of a cleaner hit with the airglider than the champ. But I think at your level that may not be too relevant. The Champ has a slightly chunkier grip than the airglider (unless that has changed) that allowed a bit more purchase on the spear. However, good use of tacky can overcome that.

For you, I would go for the champ - its a good versatile javelin for a broad range of abilities. It is forgiving enough that you wont do too much damage to yourself (unlike most carbons).

totally agree, the champ is a very forgiving spear......plus knowing it is also in the capable hands

i remember seeing zelezny and backley throwing in SA - throwing in high volumes and they used exclusively steel javelins - zelezny only used champions and had 4 per set.

infact now i mention it, i don't think i've seen any top class throwers throwing exclusively carbons in training and with good reason!

[joncon13591]

Thanks alot for all the info, it's really been useful to know this before I go and buy something.
I never knew there was so many subtle differences in all of these javelins what with shaft and grip variations etc

If I may just pose a question that has arisen from this, why would the airlglider be made with a thinner grip if it is the flagship of the range? Sounds to me as if the thicker the grip the better.

Also there is this Orbit javelin about aswell. I don't even want to think about how good or bad it is to have a blunter javelin in flight, even though the link suggests it is blunt is the way forward. To be honest I can't see it making me that much ground at this level.
What I am interested in though is I'd just like to know how the orbit stacks up to the airglider in terms of thickness in shaft & grip and stiffness, and any other areas which are of great relevance that I might have missed out.

I'm set to throw an original steel champion within the next couple of days, as someone's bringing one down and says I can have a go. Then I reckon I'll have a feel for what I'm looking for and I can go from there.

Thanks again,
Jon

[slinger]

well an orbit will feel the same as a champion in your hand - same diameter grip and shaft.

[joedund]

Slinger y do u suggest champ from orbit it sounds like the only difference is the blunt point ?