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Post by sam on Oct 9, 2008 10:22:26 GMT 1
So far i have managed to get through 3 sessions and have one more to go before i get a day off.
Monday was an upper body gym session which included the following exercises and reps
2.5min cross trainer at 200kwh or over front back shoulder press 40kg 3 sets of 10 (5 front 5 back) Bench press increments of 5kg from 70kg reps..10, 7, 5, 3, 1, 5, 10 reclined lat pull downs 3 sets of 10 reps to place emphasis on the rear of the shoulder. Bicep curls 3 sets 20kg with Z-Bar Tricep extensions 3 sets of 10 reps per arm 5kg disc Straight arm Chest fly with 5kg discs 3 sets 10 reps Bent to straight arm reverse chest fly 5kg discs 3 sets 10 reps "running man" 3 sets 5kg discs 2.5mins 300kwh cross trainer..killer
Tuesday - Plyometric session at the track followed by short aproach throws (about 25 in total)
Wednesday leg session in the gym
2.5mins on the cross trainer at 200kwh + 3 sets 10 reps full cleans at 60kg 1/2 squats to bench starting at 70kg increments of 10kg reps..10, 7, 5, 3, 1, 5, 10 Quad Extensions 3 sets of 10 Hamstring curls 3 sets of 10 Bouncing lunges with a 15kg plate held to chest 3 sets of 10 reps per lead leg Leg raises 3 sets of to failure 2.5mins on the cross trainer at 300kwh+
Thursday is a medi ball session at the track and will also include some foot work drills and some throwing (20 - 25 throws)
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Post by Caroline on Oct 9, 2008 11:11:47 GMT 1
What specific exercises do you do for med ball and plyos?
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Post by sam on Oct 9, 2008 11:32:00 GMT 1
Aaah good question... i always find it difficult to explain the plyo sessions and the mediball sessions as i find it hard to describe the actions.
The plyo session is done in the stand and consists of bounding, hopping and cross stepping up the stairs. there is a wide mix of different bounds and fast feet exercises.
Mediball stuff will be from lunges, squats, ab work and throwing of the various balls throws such as chest pass, soccer throw (straight arm no bend at elbow) high throws from ground throws for distance from ground going forwards etc
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Post by Caroline on Oct 9, 2008 12:33:44 GMT 1
What is 'cross stepping up stairs'?
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Post by Administrator on Oct 9, 2008 13:51:29 GMT 1
Hard work if you do enough of them!
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Post by sam on Oct 9, 2008 14:01:54 GMT 1
What is 'cross stepping up stairs'? cross stepping up the stairs is exactly what it says. one foot per step doing cross steps up the steps. throwing hand should be extended as though you are carrying a javelin and lead arm should be functioning as normally as it would be if you were going down the runway. it's a shame that the stand at our main club does not have more steps it only has about 16 small steps up it would be good to have a stadium like crystal palace closer to hand. this kind of work is somethign i took from my time spent training with fatima back in the early 90's
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Post by doogiehowsermd on Oct 9, 2008 14:53:04 GMT 1
You also mention "Plyometric session at the track followed by short aproach throws "
why do you do it this way round - are your legs not tired after plyo so the quality of throws suffer? Just interested if there is a specific logic to this
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Post by sam on Oct 9, 2008 16:09:26 GMT 1
the logic to it is if you can work on finding good positions while tired then when you are fresh you will be able to get in the right positions easier. It's a logic which seems to have worked for my group over the years.
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Post by slinger on Oct 9, 2008 17:29:58 GMT 1
there are of course many levels to the intensity of plyometrics - simple foot drills/combos/rope skipping are great for warming up - where's single leg bounds and depth jumps are seen to be incredibly taxing on the nervous system.
so some plyo's are widely regarded as incredibly demanding often requiring alot of rest [days] between bouts of training a particular muscle group using the method and just like in weight lifting it's regarded best if you train skill elements such as olympic weightlifting prior to say bench press or squats etc - the same can be said with javelin throwing i feel.
it'll be interesting to hear others opinions on this.
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Post by doogiehowsermd on Oct 9, 2008 17:42:18 GMT 1
if you don't get in good positions when feeling fresh i would assume that doing this tired would ingrain this further but i do see sam's logic to an extent
however the adage quality not quantity can't apply if you are not fresh
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Post by Administrator on Oct 9, 2008 18:01:23 GMT 1
Well, I think you're right Slinger - it all depends what plyometrics we're talking about.
For instance, more advanced plyos like depth jumping for example are not really recommended for anyone who cannot squat at least one and a half times their body weight and youngsters. Thinks like light bounding, hopping etc would be appropriate for the majority.
One thing for sure though is jumping plyometrics in my mind should be all about quality and not quantity. The idea of them is quick sharp movements, generally minimising the time contact with the floor.
For me also, being tired and then doing technical work is where bad habits can be picked up and injuries can happen. You should be finding positions (when throwing) when your body is in the state that it would be when competing - not when the CNS and muscles are mashed from plyo work.
Perhaps a clearer definition of what plyo work is done would help?
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Post by sam on Oct 9, 2008 18:23:21 GMT 1
i think the intensity of the throwing should be explained. The throws are done from 3step, 5step and 7step and are not done at more than about 50%effort from the point of trying to throw for distance. It's about trying to come in and hold the positions required for a good throw. My logic is if you can get it right when tired/drained then when it comes to being fresh you should be at an advantage. As i've said it's something which has reaped huge gains so something must be right about it. The phrase thinking outside the box comes to mind. The plymometric session is a mix of exercises working at different intensities on the main muscles in the legs. The small two footed jumps work more on the lower half of the leg as there isn't much knee lift, the larger jumps on the bigger steps work more the larger muscles in the legs. There are less jumps on the bigger steps.. Each exercise has a 2min rest before the next one is started. So far no one has suffered more than a bruised ego doing these kind of sessions.
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Post by slinger on Oct 9, 2008 20:47:28 GMT 1
and of course plyometrics doesn't have to be leg orientated either - many med ball exercises are classed as "plyometric" - for example throwing a med ball off a wall rebounding it and throwing it back etc - doing it in a "stretch-shortening" cycle way of the muscles used and this of course is where for the javelin thrower who uses this type of muscle contraction when throwing reaps the rewards as it's training in a event specific way.
sam talks of "pressure testing" when throwing fatigued and whilst this imo is an effective means [if used sparingly btw], it's personally not what i'd do using plyo's as a means to fatigue - doing a lap of the track between javelin sets would be more appropriate tbh and do that job, as plyo's [even each rep] are just as skill orientated and require as much focus and concentration as say a PB attempt in weightlifting or a comp throw for the method to be effective.....indeed as mentioned it's quality not quantity and for the most part javelin throwing is the same.
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Post by sam on Oct 13, 2008 11:39:09 GMT 1
Saturday morning session at lee valley consisted of
Warm Up - 2 laps of the 200m track followed by some stretches. Medicine ball throws against the re-bound wall - some plyometric over head soccer throws as described above by slinger. Hurdle step overs with javelin 3 sets of 5 hurdles at lowest hight Fast feet lader with javelin (cross steps) 3 sets Running drills with javelin (aprox 30metres) consisting of "normal speed" cross steps, "fast pace" race cross steps, excessive speed run throughs 15m forward carry and 15m cross steps all of which were 3 sets. Bounds over hurdles. one hurdle bound over land and jump out, two hurdles - bound over over and out, four hurdles - bound over, over, over, over out Outdoor throwing 40mins
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Post by nije on Oct 14, 2008 9:25:33 GMT 1
I aM SUrPRISeD THERE is not olympic lifting in that programme so far. Dynamic exercises are essential to training all year around. The micro and static stuff is OK but supplementary. Also in terms of plyo's maybe look at low impact stuff such as jumping up onto mats or high benches for reps (eccentric jumping) or juming up staris, through sand or off soft surfaces.
MEd ball should be in correct and extended positions and preferably agaisnt a wall where is isi then caught in an extended position as well or simply throwing a med ball at each other football style cathcing with the feet fixed and above the head. I heard CAnter does 6 x 300m reps as a discus thrower, probably because he can but that is excessive OMHO as long as you can do something like 10 x 100 this means you are fit to train and fit for purpose.
Many of the conferences and S &C specialists say similar stuff. Many porgrammes are based upo what coaches used to do i.e. 20 x 200m for jumpers was an example - too excessive. SAnd dune running is quite common but in terms of developing bad technique - it does. Would we ask javelin throwers to throw 2kg javs with modified techniques just to be able to do so. The point is runnig at certain paces on a surface that you know you will run on is widely regarded as beneficial. SAnd dune running may have it's place as an alternative session to break monotony but again -any S&C speaciallist will questoin why a sprinter would do a 40 min run - just no point. The most effective way of losing weight is interval training for this event as anaerobic exrecise requires 4 x as much energy to recover than aeobic, Hence why sprinters have low body fat and muscluar bodies while aerobic exercisers have low weight and low muscle definition and quantity and in some cases frankly look unhealthy. Food for thought!
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