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Post by nije on May 10, 2008 11:45:55 GMT 1
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Post by nije on May 10, 2008 11:48:36 GMT 1
Actually these throwers are the only ones ranked in the men's side so far.
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Post by pj on May 10, 2008 12:48:52 GMT 1
'I think our juniors have a bright future but need assistance' says Nigel.
'Twas ever thus! Where, oh where have I heard that before?
With Athletics failing rapidly in the majority of English Schools ( another story! ) assistance is needed urgently. Relying on a chosen few who are deemed medal prospects now is not going to work long term. We are letting down all the 'enlightened Coaches' of years gone by. Soon there will be no one left to 'hang our hats on'.
Programmes such as 'Gladiators 'will cream off the best for reality TV. Why? Because they pay.
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Post by nije on May 10, 2008 14:12:57 GMT 1
Hi Phil
I don't disagree with you... but if you lookin AW this week you will see quite a poorly reported article with pictures of me and Brett Morse coaching kids when it wasn't actually the whole story. We utilised the various partnerships we could see adn brough them together to find the right stuff in the schools basically. This meant we asked the schools themselves to send us some kids who they thought had shown a propensity to throw (i.e. get the schools part of the process not lecture them as if they know nothing) and using UWIC, the NIAC, AAW adn Cardifff council funding and their ADO we had 100 or so kids from the locality have a training session and their best approximate measured throw for the 4 events and we now have a development squad of 30 kids who we are dove tailing into UWIC programmes as well as providing a wed night session with variosu coahes who we are utilising form around the ara to develop thier skills and to be mentored/monitored. It kills lots of birds with one or two stones and it was not part of muy remit but something that has been recof=gnised as quite useful!
We had a boy throw over 40m standing with the hammer, 4 or 5 40m javelin lads from yr 8-10 with sports day techniques and some excellent girls as well.
This is hopefully going to be rolled out throughout Wales adn alrready the teachers have asked when ois the jumps sprints and disance one!!!! Well that has already been organised I can tell you. The thing is we need these structures to develop the sport becuase we want to find and then nurture the next brett morse and lianne clarkes and not just hope they show up from time to time.
We have few throws coaches in Wales and we are trying to devleop the current ones, find new ones and tempt ex throwers back into the clubs to lend their skills. So far we have made a good start and if you look down the rankings over the next few years I think you will find we will have a bit of depth across the four throws because we have identified some talent and as a pool or collective of coaches, we have all had some part in their development which in turn has had a positive part in our development.
On a personal level, I am extrenmely excited about the athletes I am involved with and by seeing a few of our throwers in the junior world rankings - I think we are on the verge of a resurgence in the throws events. I also think this years' javelin (having seen four lads throw over 70 and basically all throwing PB's AGIAINST EACH OTHER) will be stronger thatn last and will continue to improve if we can get all of these lads (and lasses) with the right training group adn partners with a range of coaches available to them.
Let's say I ran things!!!!!!! this is what I would look for inthe jav event.
have a sheffield squad of athletes working with Brian as the lead with any other coach invited to particpate in their own development and bring their own atheltes along. Brian and the likes of Wilf, Mick, Sharpe and Dave could also have some involvement (Dave esp in S&C - but concentrate on his own throwing for the moment). There are other excellent coaches as well up there who could contribute adn that could be a regional jav centre. Who isd to say that they could not go to another venue like Manchester or GAteshaed to widfen teh net of coaches and atheltes from time to time.
Another centre could be based in London areaa - le valley/eton/sutton where lead coaches could be Yatesy with the likes of Sam, Peter, John, Loubs and the other coaches from that area could get involved (even Steve)
MAybe have an East section with Mike mc, MArk Roberson and the other coaches working with the talent ou there
Then we have the Cardifff/bath area with ME Ken, Caroline, Peter and a few others rotating the strike so to speak and get all of our throwers working together on weeknds or perhaps every other weekend.
I think that covers the areas but the point is that ANYONE thrower or coach can attend and these shoudlbe the centres where higher level coaching qulaifications can be taken, mentoring can take place, adn we can all learn form each other.
Ultimately, there could be inter are visits where the north visit the london squad and exchange idea's views with proper talks and javelin related presentations.
This is where I want the jav event to go - an open regional bias where anyone can attend and learn if they choose to do so. This would be the chance for the 'club' coaches who may feel disenfranchaised can become part of the process - if you are good it will be noted!!! Not all coaches want to be elite but this gives the chance to coach elite athletes.
National squads can be built around these and I feel should be hosted at different venues around the country with any coach and athletes allowed to attend to watch the national squad in action.
Now the shot disc and hammer could organise something similar based around where the best athletes are and where the best coaches are.
No that is just a start!
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Post by pj on May 10, 2008 16:12:05 GMT 1
I have no doubt you have the enthusiasm and ability to carry it off, Nige, in Wales! England has 10-12 x the population. The National Curriculum has virtually stuffed Athletics.........I am not just talking Javelin.......... Some County Schools' Associations do not have enough Athletes to have District trials or even County Championships. Athletics is hardly taught at all in over half the Schools in England. The facilities are not maintained. PE teachers are no longer Specialists in Physical Education only in Games. And this is 'the Crunch' because Games take pupils/students away from Athletics unless it is taught and coached by the likes of Wilf, Tom, Frank and those 'schooled' under them at Colleges, Clubs and in schools. I have seen National Curriculum lessons in Frisbee throwing instead of Jav, Disc, Shot and Hammer.
I know people like Bill Britton, in his late 60's who still go into Schools to teach Hammer, despite all the 'Elf 'n' Safety rules and regulations. This is the exception but it should be the rule. A generation of Physical Educationalists, Head Teachers, Athletics Governing bodies and Sports' Councils have brought us to this sorry state of affairs. It will get worse before it gets better!
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Post by slinger on May 10, 2008 18:15:52 GMT 1
i was lucky to have a PE teacher who was very much "participating in sport focussed" throughout a variety of sports - depending what time of year it was, we would always begin with rugby and X country then after christmas we'd move on to football, through to athletics and cricket - we had house matches in each sport and for athletics sports day, which literally took the whole day ;D we had school records and for me it was an amazing oppertunity to be a "celeb" within my school and a chance for the other kids at school to see me throw, after hearing so much about it, as our PE teacher would always mention achievements of kids during asembleys etc over the years we've had some decent athletes at my school [only a 500 pop. comp] richard salt threw the javelin 56 as an u/17 and 62m as a senior, george brocklebank [english schools' winner] 17m u/17 shot thrower both went to my school, along with numerous runners who went to either english school X countries or track
now we, as i said were lucky to have a decent PE teacher and this brings me to my point.....
....when i throw at the track occasionally a young yr 9 chap [u/15] throws sometimes and whilst i don't do coaching as such at the moment as i'm obviously throwing myself i help out a little bit when he's down, he's thrown 40m - so not too bad. His PE teacher the other day he was telling me, wouldn't even let him wear his javelin boots at an inter school competition he had at the track where we throw - now if that happens once then it must happen everywhere - it's sad really that kids aren't as encouraged as i was. It isn't surprising to think that many kids who do well when they are young do come from the same schools, as it's the teachers that encourage in the first place - happens alot that actually!
lastly, as metioned previously "gladiators" it's back tomorrow night at 6pm on sky one ;D
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Post by dobster on May 11, 2008 14:27:42 GMT 1
TBH Nije - you have hit the nail on the head and I think it is something we have all been teetering on the edge of. On the plus side it isnt that hard to set up either, just as the Sheffield get togethers showed - a bit of interest and organisation and it soon takes off. On the NGB side of life, is this something that UKA are looking at, or, as they are in a state of flux at the moment, would it be better if we just organised it ourselves.
I know that Rob Wilkie up in Scotland is looking at something similar as well.
Tom
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Post by nije on May 12, 2008 8:46:04 GMT 1
Thanks forthat Tom
and Idon;tthink we are that far off it in the javelin as far as setting up the structures, we have good people and like minded poeple all over the country. And Phil, I think that the fact that we are wales is right i what you say - but there are 9 territories in England and as I thik I pointed out we only neeed tohave a few centres. We have the likes of TOm up in Scotland (if he is still there! and the Brians, Mick, Sharpie DAve Wilf et all in the north, south we hvae london and east anglain lot incl Sam Mike Mc MArk R .yatesy adn thepther goodncoache around there and for wales and swest/mids you have caroline, Ken Ottley and a few very good others around.
AS I say I think we have the beginnings of a great structure becuase I believe we haev a lot of good javelin coaches in this country and plenty who are comng through and proving themselves.
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Post by pj on May 12, 2008 18:56:32 GMT 1
Hi Nige,
I admire your optimism and please don't get me wrong; I should very much like everything in the garden to be rosy. However after what has gone before with the 'brave new world of funding' supposed to be bringing us back up to the levels of our competitor Nations I fear we are in a worse state now, and with the Olympic Games on the horizon I can see Athletics being overshadowed by several other Sports because 'they' had a long term plan in place.
The Governing Body's focus on potential Medallists only, has affected the grass roots of the sport and put development on the back burner. If you neglect the base of the pyramid the whole thing crumbles from the bottom and you end up with no top. It is no good pretending any more that if you put a few unfunded ad hoc groups together in various parts of the Country you will get a continuous flow of talented athletes making it to the top. The costs of travel are getting more and more prohibitive and people will no longer work and train for nothing. We charge people, usually the parents and coaches of the athletes for going to watch them and they get little or nothing in return. Are we an Amateur sport or Professional or one masquerading as the other? Leave you to guess which way round I think it is.
If we are Professional then we should have Professional structures, strategic planning and pay Coaches and Athletes. They then have the choice whether to be Head Teachers etc or Coaches. Athletes can work full or part time or just train. Youngsters with talent can be guided through every stage of their early careers until the talent bears fruit. Remember a lot of talent makes it to the top in Athletics because of the numbers of their peers who drop out for one reason or another. I should be interested to know how many Champions at English Schools' etc actually make it through the junior ranks? A lot less than 1% I should think.
So good luck with your plans. I hope you get the support with funding that the young athletes deserve and I hope they reward you for your commitment.
Phil
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