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Post by sam on May 12, 2004 23:19:33 GMT 1
I was coaching my group on tuesday when one of the senior people of the club management came over to tell me about the local schools trials coming up. I said to this person (who shall remain nameless) look at the size of my group tonight... word must be getting around about my excellent coaching skills!!!! This person then said to me infront of my athletes "Yes..but you are not a coach are you!!!"" talk about lose my credibility....all because i don't have a piece of paper that says i'm a coach i'm not considered as one by my club untill it suits them...like when a schools contacts them and says we have this lad that thros a long way and we think that it would be good if he could come and train at your club...this senior person then comes to me and askes me if i can look at this lad and "coach him".....talk about double standards still i don't care...i coach the number one Under15 boy inthe uk so nah nah nah nah
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Post by motherhen on May 13, 2004 15:26:41 GMT 1
Its unfortunate that the individuals in your club feel its fit to treat you that way. To be honets you shouldnt have every been but in the position where you are expect to coach alone without having the necessary qualifications.
I would really see about getting qualified up to your level 2 throws at least then your covered by UKA. Even better make sure your club pay for it. You could always not take on any more club athletes till they do! Failing that ask at you local county sports partnership. They have funding available for coach education.
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Gamey
Nieland
Coach / Thrower
Posts: 43
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Post by Gamey on May 13, 2004 17:58:43 GMT 1
Hi Sam,
Must agree totally with Motherhen. You should have not been put in that position by your club. I think it would also be an insurance issue for the club/track. All coaches at our club are required to have a police check carried out also- something UKA keep saying that they are promoting to get credits for your coaching licence renewal. All of my coaching has been sponsered through my club & their are many other ways to get sponsered.
It is just paper though - your group confirms that u are a coach!
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Post by sam on May 13, 2004 18:07:02 GMT 1
i am qualified to UKA Level 1 and have had all my police checks...i work for the Metropolitan police for gods sake..how many more checks could i possibly need..
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Gamey
Nieland
Coach / Thrower
Posts: 43
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Post by Gamey on May 14, 2004 10:11:37 GMT 1
So what the hell is this guy at your club going on about!! From what you said I thought that you were coaching as an athlete & he was making a remark that you had not done anything with UKA. Anyway you always get some twit (being polite )that thinks he knows everything. So your in the Met - must be more careful what I say in future I've come home fuming from events last night. There was another coach taking some of the combined eventers I normally coach javelin to. Really cheesed me off considering that they all entered the Herts Schools Combined on Monday & got 1,2,3,4 & 6 positions. So don't think your alone when you think others undermine you. Still Alistair who I was working threw over his PB- that just about managed to keep the temper down
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Post by motherhen on May 14, 2004 10:32:14 GMT 1
Ok time for some boring bits:-
Level 1 is an assistant coach and should not be left to coach a group alone without the supervision of a Level 2 or above in that event group. To coach on your own you need Level 2 throws or above. Level 2 cost approx £120 now. Look at either your club, local development unit or county sports partnership for funding.
Regarding CRB check this is an ongoing dilema. To renew as coach in the new scheme UKA required a disclaimer stating that you were willing to be policed checked. All new coaches also sign a similar disclaim to (I think). UKA was then going to process all coaches through as volunteers. This hasnt happened yet to my understanding.
Clubs cannot CRB check coach without being registered as a voluntry body with the CRB which costs £300 (which all clubs havent got). There is the possibility of this money being made available through the next pot of clubs:future funding when it get released (should be done soon). Until then clubs need to try and get copies of the CRB checks / certificates for those that have been checked (through work etc) and perhaps liase through the sports partnership / local authority re extra CRB checks or self decleration until a CRB check can be funded.
From what I heard you dont get renewal credits of being CRB checked but you do for attending a child protection course (eg the SportcoachUK one) which is worth 5 renewal credits.
I know some of this goes off on a tangent but thought it might be useful info to some of you.
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Post by Mack on May 14, 2004 18:43:38 GMT 1
I am not a coach.... although I coach my other half and Aaron (who comes on here)
I am not qualified. My dad is the general coach at level 2 for throws for our club. what happens is any new little kids turn up, my dad takes them and coachs them I only look after my two.
My club leave me alone because I have forgotten more than all of the coachs put together know about the javelin. And at my level (not being too big headed) I should think so.
What can I say... some people are lucky!
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Post by Aaronh on May 15, 2004 12:17:10 GMT 1
and a good job your doing ;D
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Post by motherhen on May 15, 2004 12:42:37 GMT 1
Unfortunatly in the current blame culture developing in this country generally its not a question of knowledge that makes a coach. Your still in a smilar boat to Sam in that you will need to get qualified so at least in the event of someone ever trying to sue you or your club you have some cover as your qualified. I've posted earlier what level covers what. You may find the course boring maybe even patronising to you but you got to think of the benefits of covering yourself and the club. When you do on a course let the tutor know your experience (if he doesnt already know you). A good tutor will feed off that for the benefit of the group and will help you get more out of the day. Sorry to keep going on about insurance and qualifications etc but I just keep popping my work head back on .
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Post by SCater on May 20, 2004 11:03:42 GMT 1
with regards to the coaching situation in UK Athletics i think it is a joke! I have recently took the first 2 day section of the Level 2 UKA coaching course and was repeatedly told by the woman taking it that the UKA were aware of me coaching the throwing events (along with my friend who is in the same situation at my club coaching the highjump while only being a level 1 coach) and that the UKA were considering putting in an investigation into why we were coaching at only level 1 standard, and they were going to ban both of us from coaching. we both however did have one or 2 words to say about that, which the woman taking the course wasnt too happy about. we both got called stupid and unresponsible to our faces by this woman. oh and for anyone wanting to take this course i suggest you read up on any material that covers GCSE PE as you almost cover the basics for it. for the level 2 coaching course i was expecting to learn how to improve my coaching abilities not get told that as soon as your athlete reaches a certain ability barrier you need to stop coaching them as you are not qualified to push them further (HA!) at this point you are either urged to either hand your athlete over to a level 3 or above coach or take the level 3 coaching course....its a joke and a sham for £E£££££££MONEY£££££££££££ The UKA will not run any courses unless it has a minimum of 18 people there (at about £100 a session you do the math) fair enough it cost money to do these courses but how can a minimum of £1800 warrant the running of a course when there are not many people taking up the coaching courses? lastyear 2 courses for the level 2 coaching were cancled due to lack of interest!!!! the lack of interest being in the words of the UKA 'only 12 people applied for the course' ITS A JOKE Athletics clubs around the country are crying out for coaches yet when people apply to do them they get cancled due to lack of interest! anyway yet again i have had my moan lol its been almost 4 weeks now and im still waiting for info from the UKA about the 1 day event module i need to take to obtain my Level 2 Coaching Qualification. P.S saying you are a qualified UKA coach works wonders for your CV lol
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Gamey
Nieland
Coach / Thrower
Posts: 43
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Post by Gamey on May 20, 2004 14:33:22 GMT 1
Coaching at level 1 is really down to the definition of "assistant". I was on one of the very first level 1 courses that UKA arranged & we made it clear to them then that clubs would not survive if level 1 coaches could not take their own groups. No real answer was given other than to say that an assistant coach had to be working within the view of a higher level coach. Take that as you like but to me it means that you can coach your group so long as a level 2 or above coach is at the same track!! You will find all sorts of variations on the interpretation of this depending on which UKA official took your course. Sounds like you had a jobsworth UKA have a lot to answer for with regards to making courses accessable. I have tried for a couple of years now to get on a 'Coaching with Children' course but these tend to be the opposite of the situation you have in that they are over subscibed. I have also done part one of level three & if you think that you have trouble getting onto further parts of level two the situation worsens tenfold at level three & four. The other thing that strikes me with UKA is just how few of the experienced coaches (that I know) are involved in their coaching program - do you know any?? Best I managed was to be invited to a Rover combined events day where Mike McNiell held a session (brilliant but no where near enough time for me - 1 hour). I understand your comments about the material that is used at level two but you have to remember that it is aimed at a wide audience. I started coaching late so from my background I found the level 2 course ok. There are quite a few from our club on this course at the moment (including my other half) & I know that most of them have enjoyed what they have done so far. If you look at their age range you will find that, like me, they have no idea what GCSE PE is ( is it an O level or a CSE??). The trouble is for people like you, Sam & Nmack is that you are trapped within a system that does not take into account your experience. What I would suggest is that you make you grievences known to UKA & hope beyond hope that they will listen
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Post by SCater on May 20, 2004 15:48:18 GMT 1
when i say GCSE PE, look up a GCSE revision booklet for P.E it will help out. things covered include the different energy systems, metabolism, a brief overview of nutrition, methods of learning. If anyone wants more info on whats included in the Level 2 course let me know ill list the stuff to look up on and one or 2 places to find the relevant info. i forgot to add in my whinge earlier that on my course we had to do the following events. hurdles triple jump long/midle distance shot put the 2 people we had taking the whole 2 days had never coached or taken part in the following: triple jump hurdles shot put. they openly stated this.....How can someone with no background of the event know how to teach a coach how to coach that event?!? I ended up taking the shot put as if we had carried on with the way we were being tought someone would have gotten hurt, and my mate james hart had to basically take the triple jump because, how we were being tought to coach it was from a book by someone that had not actually done the event or had no prior background knowledge of it. i know the level 2 course is to try and get you basically thinking about different methods of coaching, i like to coach by example as i can luckly give an example of all the throwing events, however i do understand that this can not always be the case as not everyone learns in the same way and that talking them through with books and other references helps more and thats what the UKA is trying to achieve, but if you are tought how to coach by someone that doesnt actually know an event then personally i think it slows down the learning process of the athlete ALOT and they dont gain much/anything from the session. fair enough not every coach can do the events they teach but they usually (this does help) they have a wide varied knowledge of the sport they are coaching. how the UKA set out the course i went on would have been like giving me a book titled how to figure skate, and asking me to coach a group of athletes how lol it wouldnt have been pretty.....I know nothing about figure skating, i have trouble roller blading/ skating let alone sliding round on ice and im not the most agile or elegant of people as it is.
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Post by sam on May 20, 2004 23:51:47 GMT 1
Well i should be fine then I have A-Level PE grade C GCSE PE grade B I'm a qualified Sports Leader and UKA Level 1 ASSISTANT COACH Those with knowledge should be helped not discouraged. Those who want to know should be taught.
The trouble is UKA is run by a bunch of Suits and not real athletes. The are governed by what they believe is the most efficient system...they should take a leaf out of the USA or Australia's book for how to develop a coach and athlete.
It makes me so mad that you go to a course an get spoken to like that..WHO THE HELL DO THEY THINK THEY ARE?? bet you wouldn't have had so much trouble if you were about 10yrs older sam.
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Post by motherhen on May 21, 2004 13:04:27 GMT 1
Regarding the individual who took your course I would consider complaining to you local RETA (regional education and training adminstrator) about it and to UKA. A professionally minded tutor would not have acted in that way or condonded it.
Regarding the level of the theory wait until level 3. Some of the stuff I've seen was 2nd year sports science degree!
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Post by JB on May 23, 2004 12:15:36 GMT 1
obviously im not trying to preach to the converted but here is an excellent article from the brian mac site that may help people caught in the area between helping out and coaching or those considering entering into the coaching world. It outlines the role of coach and different styles and methods of coaching. as i said im not trying to teach my granny to suck eggs but its a interesting article for the newcomer www.brianmac.demon.co.uk/articles/scni1a1.htm
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