throwing whilst wrappin the jav

[Aaron C]

im not too interested in doing this at the minute but im sure i will in maybe 2 years down the line..so just to get a little insight into the wrapping business as im aware that most top throwers will tend to wrap or slightly wrap the javelin...

even in zeleznys WR throw from behind it shows when he is "pulling" against it, the angle the javelin is at would be parallel to the right sector line...... i assume as it was the WR that this is the way that the wrap is meant to be done? ie power being exerted not straight through the shaft
check the still images that james posted to see what i mean(the whole bottom row, mainly the last 3)
thejavelinclub.proboards23.com/index.cgi?board=Technique&action=display&thread=1182445142&page=2


hmmm just re-read my post and it doesnt really explain what im asking ;D
to put it simply>>> how do you do it and is zelznys wrap a good model to follow?

[slinger]

hi aaron, the idea with wrapping [or rotational throwing] is it allows your hand to have as much contact time with the javelin as possible druing delivery, all good athletes have actually unwound their "wrap" pretty much by the time of left foot contact.

jan zelezny throws it pretty clean tbh for example the angle of yaw on an 89m throw was 7 degrees with a zero angle of attack so i'd imagine on a 98m throw it would be pretty clean..........you see jan throws it right down the right hand sector line anyway, and it suits his low slingy, baseball pitchy delivery style........at the end of the day it's his best way to generate the most release speed and ultimately that what the game is all about - thee who throws fastest throws furthest!! ;D

i usd to be a big time wrapper - not like tupac or "fiddy" but like jan and i used to work my feet well even with a huge wrap, but since hurting my back i don't think i have the mobility to do so anymore or at least right now as if i wrap my hips turn too side on and i don't move well during ym X overs and land heavy on my right at final right foot contact, due to my hips being sooo sideways........SO bear that in mind if yuo try, don't do it to the expense of other things!

[sam]

i think this is a good image of the wrap there is another one from above which is very usefull i'll try and find it later

[sam]

this video gives a great view of the wrap
www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6M5vqowue8

and this one gives great slow down footage from ABOVE JZ to see the wrap being put to great use!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry45mfp459I&mode=related&search=

[jeremy]

Sam,

Excellent videos. There's one thing I notice about all javelin throwers who throw a long way. It's their right foot (right handers); how quick it starts to work: push, heel out fat, strike hip. Their right foot manages the process of the throw.

In my view, the right foot is the key to the javelin throw, it's the conductor of the orchestra, the film director, the architect. If the right foot doesn't do it's job, then the throw isn't timed (poor conductor), isn't pretty to watch (poor director), is likely to fall apart (poor architect).

Wrapping, blocking, high arm, impulse strides, run-off's etc etc are all pretty much irrelevant unless the right foot does its job.

Peter Yates has a wonderful expression: "Look like Tarzan, throw like Jane."

Jezza

[slinger]

athletes who throw along way tend to perform all basic technial fundamentals well, there is no single technical element that says if you perform it correctly you will throw a long way, our event is a simple one but i wish i was as simple as a one fix to cure all!!!!

[jeremy]

slinger said:

athletes who throw along way tend to perform all basic technial fundamentals well, there is no single technical element that says if you perform it correctly you will throw a long way, our event is a simple one but i wish i was as simple as a one fix to cure all!!!!

Slinger, agreed. The javelin is a very technical event, with many components: the good guys/girls tend to do all of them well.

Tiger Woods does the basics better than anyone else. Zelezny did the basics better than anyone else.

But in order to do the basics well (yet alone better than anyone else), you need to know what they are and how to prioritise how you achieve them.

Take heptathlon for example: you have to score well in 7 separate disciplines. The one with the most points wins the event. Take KS at the moment, one event (one separated discipline), is costing her at the moment.

In javelin, just supposing there were 7 different things to do, or do 7 "separate movements" each well to complete a good throw, then you'd have to start somewhere in prioritizing what to work on first.

I know everyone who throws is an individual, with strengths and weaknesses, wheter a first time 11 year-old or an olympic medallist, it just strikes me as a shame that we can't seem to get a consensus as to what needs to be done, how best to prioritise, etc etc in the art of the javelin throw.

My personal belief is that, in the javelin event, if you don't get your right foor right (if you're a right hander) then you're cheating yourself of yardage. To me that is the priority.

[nije]

One thing about the frontal images - All but Zelezny wrap - and then straighten as they hit it - more or a less. It is just part of the ir winding up process. I wrapped but straightened up when I threw well.

[slinger]

i too nije wrapped quite a lot when i was 16/17 and always got out of it well, yet trying to do the same now i don't feel i do and miss hit and time the strike, the single thing after watching back at my old vids is that now on impulse and during impulse all the way through to the right foot landing for final foot contact and strike, the right foot stays in a shut off position ie 3 o clock throughout the afore mentioned positions, back in the day at and the moment of take off for impulse, the right would be shut off ie 3 o clock but during "flight" of the impluse stride the right foot would turn so to land at 2 o clock at final right foot contact thus unwinding the body to a position where i would not only get out of the wrap, but to a position where i could achieve good early use of the right hip prior to the left foot plant - my right foot would be turned out and beginning it's 'gliding or dragging' movement by the time my left planted.

i like the idea of the moment of take off for the impulse stride to have a shut off right foot ie 3 o clock as it shows the body is shut off without the body opening up prematurely, but the main point at this time is that the right foot imo mustn't be allowed to land at 3 o clock.

.....imo if you wrap but get the right to land at 2 o clock you'll have got out of your wrap nicely ready for a long clean pull and strike.

zelezny was great at doing the above skill, thorkildsen does it now but to a lesser degree mainly due to his lesser wrap tendancies to zelezny, but have a wee look and see what the right foot does during impulse.......plenty of good vids to illustarte it on you tube.

[Patience]

For the ignorant (me) why do you call the 3 o'clock position, the shut off?

[Morgan]

What is better? rotational or linear? and at my level which should i be using?

[sam]

linear at your level and tbh the wrap does not work best for everyone.

[pembrokian]

Age old debate, style vs technique. There are basic ingredients that are essential to any activity. Then there are "optional extras" that work for some and not others.

I wouldn't teach anyone to run like Michael Johnson (or Emil Zatopek), but it clearly worked for them. If you learn a standard, orthodox technique you will find that certain idiosyncrocies idiosyncracies idiosyncrecies quirks will creep in. Some will be detrimental and you'll need to iron them out, others will be neutral or may actually help and form part of your throwng style.

Don't copy other throwers', just see what develops naturally for you over time.

[GJenson]

Agree with that - 'Don't copy other throwers'.

At the start of throwing one will use what is natural to them - straight away the thrower will realise if they can throw or not.

I remember Steve throwing at 17 and his way of throwing was already the basis of him going 90m in the future. I threw against JZ in 85 and he was just a bag of fast twitch with little direction but even then, you could see the potential - and so it proved.

We are all programmed with a way of doing things and it takes years of training to change that - for the better. The top throwers, I guess, already have that 'lucky' programming which wasn't far from the ideal for them to achieve results.

Sometimes people are born to perform, lucky are those to find out what they were born to do.