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Post by jeremy on Sept 30, 2009 1:44:27 GMT 1
Hi Guys,
I have a meeting with Charles Van Commenee to hand over the petition that many of us have signed.
I have a few questions for him on other stuff, but I haven't probably thought of everything so if anyone has a question that they's like answered, let me know and I;ll ask it, or call him yourself.
I'll try and report back what happens.
Jeremy
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Post by pembrokian on Sept 30, 2009 8:47:49 GMT 1
I'm not sure this is best directed at him but it's certainly one for the UKA heirarchy.
"What is Athletics in the UK doing to compete against Rugby Union/League for a bigger share of the available talent pool, given that the throwing community is chasing the same physical types ?"
IHMO these sports market themselves far better to teenagers than we do and, even where youngsters are aware of athletics as a sport to persue, it's still seen in the UK as being predominantly about "running". With the exception of Goldie how many throwing events do you see at UK hosted international meetings ? (The only one that comes to my mind is the mens shot.)
I suspect this isn't in Van Commenee's remit; I need to find a more succinct way of phrasing this and then aim it at those who are responsible.
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Post by Administrator on Sept 30, 2009 10:04:11 GMT 1
Hi Guys, I have a meeting with Charles Van Commenee to hand over the petition that many of us have signed. I have a few questions for him on other stuff, but I haven't probably thought of everything so if anyone has a question that they's like answered, let me know and I;ll ask it, or call him yourself. I'll try and report back what happens. Jeremy Hi Jeremy, What is the petition that you talk about? Who has signed it? Who hasn't signed it? What is the goal? |
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Post by jeremy on Sept 30, 2009 13:36:11 GMT 1
This is the petition: -
_____________________________________________________
A statement from the Javelin Community...
‘’We have learned that John Trower is no longer employed by UK Athletics. This is a great loss to our event.
We as a group consider John to be the best co-ordinator of opinion on our event not only in the UKA but in the World. To lose him at this crucial stage in the development of our sport could be disastrous. We feel that John has an understanding of performance, technique and preparation at all levels within our sport and his diverse knowledge of our event is unique and therefore irreplaceable.
We would like to see John continue an involvement in assisting coaches and athletes through the formal structure of UKA.
Please consider the following list as a signed petition of our support for John and hope that it can sway opinion to help the decision making of the future strategy in one of British Athletics' most successful events of all time.’’
_____________________________________________________
Most of the coaches at the national squads have signed it. Many others have too: Wilf Paish, Tessa Sanderson, Steve Backley, Dave Ottley, Tom McNab etc etc.
100% of people are behind the "spirit" of what is trying to be achieved. There are two people that I know of who back the idea but not John Trower. They have their reasons and have said so in a private correspondence with me.
It does seem that there were some who would like to have been on the list but weren't. These include Carolyn Franks, Tom Petranoff, Roald Bradstock and Uwe Hohn, whom I've contacted and are 100% behind it.
That's what I know at this stage.
Jeremy
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Post by Administrator on Sept 30, 2009 15:07:56 GMT 1
Cheers Jeremy,
What evidence is attached to this petition in terms of showing that Mr Trower is the best co-ordinator the UK can offer in this event?
Clearly his coaching at the top level is known to all but those of us outside of the national squad setup (the vast majority) may not be aware of what has been done in the last 12 months in terms of co-ordination and taking the event on.
Could you clarify that? (I'm asking to be devil's advocate and because I am interested not to agree or disagree with anything or anyone).
James
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Post by nije on Sept 30, 2009 16:26:21 GMT 1
How many people signed it Jeremy against the two abstainers. James, the fact that these people have signed in support of him is the evidence in this case I think, however, those who support him obvious have their reasons and looking at the names at the top of the list, including 4 world record holders, it is quite an impressive one. AD poster(s) I just noticed seems to disagree though - and probably spoke too soon. Not exactly has the pulse of informed public opinion on this one as usual.
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Post by dobster on Sept 30, 2009 21:00:28 GMT 1
Cheers Jeremy, What evidence is attached to this petition in terms of showing that Mr Trower is the best co-ordinator the UK can offer in this event? Clearly his coaching at the top level is known to all but those of us outside of the national squad setup (the vast majority) may not be aware of what has been done in the last 12 months in terms of co-ordination and taking the event on. Could you clarify that? (I'm asking to be devil's advocate and because I am interested not to agree or disagree with anything or anyone). James James - from what I see as an interested observer, this is the crux of the issue. This is because I would imagine it will be the first thing that CVC will ask for. I doubt he will be too interested in who has signed the petition, but he will want, instead, concrete reasons why he should re-employ John. Now I dont fully know the reasons why JT was removed from the UKA structure, however, he has been removed (I assume) by CVC (or a management board) who will shortly be faced with a petitioner who is saying 'reverse your decision and re-employ the man you sacked'. Try now to be empathetic and place yourself in CVCs shoes and ask yourself what options have you now got; you can either look foolish and weak as a leader of an organisation and reverse a previous decision or you can stick to your first decision. Having worked with quite a few very senior personnel in a military environment, who to be honest probably have the same mix of personality characteristics of CVC (ie tough, hard talking Alpha Male 'political' Leader) then it will be extremely unlikely he will re-employ JT - he will, in all liklihood, find that course of action unpalatable. My view is that there should be an alternative solution (or solutions) that is presented, that will enable CVC to not appear weak and indecisive. This will achieve the Javelin Communities main unifying aim which is to have an event lead. This element is the most important issue to resolve and is to be honest the events' Centre of Gravity (ie without which we as an event are unlikely going to improve in time for 2012 and beyond). Tom |
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Post by Administrator on Sept 30, 2009 21:01:30 GMT 1
Hi Nigel,
I understand there is a lot of support but I would presume that CVC will want to see more than a list of names?
You mentioned that the people supporting have "obvious reasons" but my question was what are those reasons since those of us outside the national squad setup do not know. I assume its not to be kept secret?
So that my post is not perceived in the wrong way I want to be clear that I am interested not disagreeing with you Nigel or Jeremy - after all I was interested enough in javelin to set up this website and forum.
What next for John Trower if he doesn't continue in that role - is there a national coach position/mentoring position?
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Post by Administrator on Sept 30, 2009 21:12:16 GMT 1
Sorry Tom, our posts crossed
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Post by jeremy on Oct 1, 2009 2:46:05 GMT 1
James,
You have a very fair and valid point.
I'll speak to you tomorrow before or after (or both) the meeting.
Apart from not betraying peoples' confidences, there is nothing to hide (not the same thing).
As some of this stuff is of a personal nature, I don't feel comfortable putting certain things on a forum, but am happy to chat to you about it.
Jeremy
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Post by nije on Oct 1, 2009 12:52:14 GMT 1
HI JAmes
I have stated a few facts about what JOHn has been doing for uka before so don't want to repeat myself any more but I meant obvious reasons because I assume they support him because of their favourable experiences with him - thats all. call me or PM me and I'll tell you my perspective adn dealing with him over the years and why he seems to be the popular choice -and I thought me and jeremy were on the same side on this one, Tom is the one who thinks John isn't the man for the job according to his post and he has his own valid reasons for this and I respect his view. We all see people through different eyes so who would I be to tell TOm his opinion was wrong.
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Post by jeremy on Oct 1, 2009 16:20:45 GMT 1
Met with Charles, handed over list.
They will be advertising presently for a javelin lead (which he recognises as being important).
Wouldn't answer questions relating to "political stuff" in the past, present or future, which I suppose is fair enough.
There will be no restrictions on who can apply for this post.
Jeremy
PS It was very clear that CVC has only one focus: 25 athletes and their coaches for 2012
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Post by sam on Oct 1, 2009 17:57:07 GMT 1
wow
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Post by dobster on Oct 1, 2009 18:00:52 GMT 1
HI JAmes I have stated a few facts about what JOHn has been doing for uka before so don't want to repeat myself any more but I meant obvious reasons because I assume they support him because of their favourable experiences with him - thats all. call me or PM me and I'll tell you my perspective adn dealing with him over the years and why he seems to be the popular choice -and I thought me and jeremy were on the same side on this one, Tom is the one who thinks John isn't the man for the job according to his post and he has his own valid reasons for this and I respect his view. We all see people through different eyes so who would I be to tell TOm his opinion was wrong. Excuse me Nigel but that is not what my post was about at all - I didnt write that John was not the man for the job - if you take the time to read my post again you will note that I was looking at the problem from a different angle, and in that case the position that CVC has found himself in. To be honest that original logical construct has, I suppose, been accurate - ie CVC is/has been looking elsewhere. Dont draw inference from what is clearly not there. My views on who should be the event lead are private and to be honest it is not a discussion that I wish to have on this forum considering that John is not present to represent his views - that is hardly fair is it. For Jeremy - whilst perhaps not the result you wanted when discussing with CVC, just wanted to say well done and thanks for taking the matter on and at least elevating the jav community desire for an event lead to the NGB. Tom |
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Post by nije on Oct 2, 2009 15:14:30 GMT 1
Sorry Tom, but I thought you had written this in a previous thread but if I was mistaken, apologies for misrepresenting what you said.
Also, my understanding was that they were looking to appoint a jav lead but john wasn't it. I also seem to recall reading or hearing somewhere that Uwe Hohn was approached but he already had a job with australia and that a Finnish candidate had also been targetted. I also understand that Mike McNeil was approached to be a mentor a while back but the time/ money / conditions or whatever were not suitable. He is a dep head/head and would imagine it would take a tidy sum to get him away from that but his apointment as I have previously mentioned would also be a welcomed one by me for one and I think a few others.
My concern is that is appears that UKA are looking overseas (again) to fill this post which is a bit of a kick in the teeth for our domestic coaches of whom we have some very competent ones and a few who I think would do an excellent job. However, once in post, they deserve our support 100%.
My only word of warning is that just having the best coach who coaches the best athletes is not necessarily the answer as sometimes coaches and athletes do not gel and in some cases the athlete may not have what it takes. I know for example of an athlete who departed with a considerably amount of money to be coached by a coach who coaches some of the top performers in their event and failed to improve their pb this year, hence, it is a case of having the raw materials in the first place.
Again Tom sorry if I misrepresented what you wrote.
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