Strength Training for youngsters

[javdad]

For various reasons including constant injurys and lack of strength I've decided that my son Ryan should start strength training (he will be 15 in October),
I've found out that my Gym will allow him to join and allows use of resistance machines for 14 & 15 year olds,
Anyway my question is from experience can anyone recommand any particular resistance exercises that would be useful?,
I'm aware that using the cable machine similiar to a javee will be useful but uncertain what other exercise should be done.

Cheers

Jon

[lifebeginsat40]

John

Stay away from machines, if you can! Free weights if anything, and if he has any sort of bad back, make sure he is totally injury free before you even think about trying to strengthen the back.

I would start off with a few weeks of flexability sessions at the start of the winter, before working up to any sort of weight training schedule. I have got a few strength & conditioning DVDs if you want to take a look, as well as all the materials from the strength & conditioning course.

Send me an email or a pm if you need anything

[lifebeginsat40]

There are lots of things to consider before starting a youngster off on the weights, not least still growing, growth spurts and all manner of things.

I still think that young kids should still start some type of strength training early on, but you do have to be careful.

There are lots of resources out there, as a start take a look at this link

www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/strength-training-children.htm

Chris

[Patience]

I would think very carefully before starting a youngster on weights. Perhaps spend some money on an assessment by a good strength and conditioning coach?
As Chris has mentioned there are many factors to be taken into consideration before taking up strength training. One of those is ensuring your son uses the correct technique. Lots of injuries can result in lifting incorrectly or strengthening the wrong part.

[robyn2012]

I have been doing strength training since I was 13. I did 1 year of just technuiqe work on the lifts, lifting nothing really heavy and then when I was 14 I started to lift heavier. I thought that technuiqe was vital for the lift because if I get into bad habits then it would affect me in the furure. I will agree with Chris free weights are far batter, I find also that I can lift hevaier with free weights instead of a supported machine!!! I also did a session with a welch weightlifting commonwealth champion and he strongly suggested free weights too!

Flexability does also help, as I have found out

[coach8567]

You may find the following link helpful.

disc.server.com/discussion.cgi?disc=109718;article=69423;title=%5BJavelin%20Discussion%20Forum%20II%5D

Jeff always has a lot to say but this has much merit.

[nije]

Erm I am doing a talk about this very subject at the next javelin squad on sept 23rd. Just becasue you can lift weights at a young age is not a reason to do so. Lay off them. Injured elbows, back and shoulders have been developed by bad technique, getting bigger and stronger will exacerbate such injuries. My advice for what it is worth, is keep way from the weights room, throw med balls, jump, hurdle, run, run up work adn throwing, work good technical positions and try and simulate them in training.

My worry is hearing of shoulder elbow and back injuries at young ages whihc are caused through technical flaws - they should be the priority. LTAD at young ages and throughout pubity are good times to develop skills as strength will increase naturally. Like tanign steroids, extra lifitng can cuase unnattural growth of certain muscles and can outgrow or over strain certain joints. Osgood slatters is common among yr9 students as growing pains. Adding a weight programme to such a condition will only exacerabate this.

12-16 you really need to develop your skills and specific strength that balls, calisthenic circuits and drills will allow adequately!

[Caroline]

There are lots of differing opinions on this. Personally I think that starting with weights can lead to problems if started too early without a good foundation of technique.

Interestingly enough, some of the strongest kids in sport are gymnasts. All their strength building is done using core and body weight exercises... gymnastics training also improves fast twitch. Ask Andreas.... ;D

[robyn2012]

Yeah Gymnastics is so good!! If I could turn back the clock that is one thing I would deffo do!! I wish I could do it now!! I did go to gymnastics for 1 session ages ago and I was so bad at it! I am the most un flexible person you will ever come across! well at least I can touch my toes! but cant even do a front roll (I am ashamed)!

[wez]

I agree with most of whats been said above, it is best to stay away from any major weight training until the bones and joints are fully formed, for boys that is around 18, and for particularly late developers more like 21! The bones are still soft while the the individual is growing and will not become fully stable and mature until a little while after maximum height has been reached. Ontop of which as Nije says increasing strength levels will actually also increase the chance of injury unless the throwing technique is truly excellent(and even then you aren't 100% safe)

The best thing to do is as Nije says, concentrate on body weight resistance exercises and plyometrics until he has finished developing. These will build up the core strength and condition very effectively while also considerably improving elasticity and fast muscle reaction which are absolute essentials for jav.

So look into circuit training (using the body weight for resistance) including plenty of situps, back raises, rotational trunk exercises, press-ups, pull-ups, jumps and medball throwing. There is a huge amount of info on the web and at athletics clubs to cover this and to make sure the athlete doesn't get bored.

[dobster]

Medball, cricuits, conditioning - its what helped JIMBO throw 73+ as a second year junior. No doubt he can expand a bit more, but at the time he was very weak for a thrower, but had good conditioning, low body fat, excellent technique and a good attitude as well as a good work ethic and he listened to advice. Caroline did some very good prepatory work with him which will and continues to pay dividends.

The age to start weight lifting varies with the individual, but the baseline advice above is sound. There is no harm in starting lifting technique early though (blank bar with either a trainer weight/wooden disc). Body weight exercises and some light dumbell work can help as well, but the weights should be light. Similarly there will be very little harm in doing some light multigym weights - again varied, broad based, light and focussing on a wide range of movements.

[nije]

I attended a strength and conditioning course recently with track and field in mind. The course leader repeated what I have heard before and what I believe in. Lifting weights even machine and to an extent dumbells are totally unnecessary at a young age as they are not specific to the actions you require. Yes learning how to clean etc in early teens may help develop a good technique but are you really telling me that you couldn't develop good technique as a 16-18 year old? It is a bogus argument IMO. I really don't think many actually understand strength and conditionining in young people and the long term damage it can do. Many strength and conditioners do some of the most rediculous and dangerous things you could think of (i.e. they are looking to do something different so they can claim they thought of a new exercise). If you don't believe me - go look at what some athletes are doing on superfast treadmills with their assigned coach on youtube. Stepping onto a treadmill at 25MPH is dangerous and easily replicated in a safer manner but check out how many AM footballers are doing it - why?

At a young age, training with weights should be minimal in the 3 maybe 4 sessions they do in a week. Learn the skills i.e. nurture the nature - i.e. med balls, jumps, drills, sprints and throwing. General lifting will come as they mature and with sound techniques, will hopefully stand up to the training and minimize the risk of the all to common and inevitable injuries that come with top class athletics.

One last thing about skill. If there are any sharp eyed people out there to make my point about skill - if you lookat the picutures of Matti in the AW or the English schools pics you will notive that his point is above his head and throwing relatively low (and rotated somewhat) with his grip facing the camera and it was raining. He threw 53m - very badly as it transpired and the worst he had thrown since we had got him out of that problem. Look at the stills fromo AW today or LBG's from the AAA's where his hand is high, facing up, not over wrapped - and his point is on his temple/eybrow and lo and behold he threw nealry 10m further (in nicer conditions) - something that others did not achieve. This was simply down to him rectifying his skill aspect of the throw. He had basically been on holiday and did a couple of sessions of throwing and in fairness to him, replicate in competition what he usually does in training in terms of body shapes. He still has his right foot to sprt out, and stop creeping off to the left before throwing - but he was a world class carriage position - a good arm and by far the best technique of anyone of his age group. What's more, his elbow was killing him at the start of the year as he kept dropping it and after the English schools it wasn't too clever either, hence, why we must ensure that our throwers do the basics right and keep healthy without contributing to injuries making basic techical errors at a young age that they may get away with but haunt them later in life. This is why his right foot is of immediate concern and why we continuously work it and will work at it over the winter.

Sorry if this sounds like an essay - but I feel very strongly about how we develop our best youngsters. Out of our all time list for U15 boys (about 30 deep) not one makes the top 10 all time seniors and only 1 U17 manages that - GAry JEnson - who himself was a child superstar who never really had a full career as a senior and probably did not do himself justice as a senior - a serious talent that he was. I hope he reads this as GAry was a fantastic technician but probably not as good an athlete as we all were when we became adults.

[pj]

Strength is one component of power. Essential for Jav throwers. At this stage I should concentrate on developing core stability, speed, elasticity and technique. Have a look at Gambetta exercises as a possible way of gaining shoulder strength and mobility at the same time building protection against shoulder problems, ie. deltoid and rotator cuff muscles. 14/15 is probably too early to introduce weights.

One thing that Nigel has always espoused is that very few outstanding youngsters, youths, juniors make it to the top at Senior level. Everyone has their own views on why, but it is generally true. All the more reason to learn to 'walk before running'

[dobster]

Not disagreeing with you Nije but I think you missed the point of what I was saying.

[nije]

Sorry Tom

I read back what I wrote and it sounded a bit like I was having a go at you m8 - and it wasn't and sorry if read like that. The point I was making that I have heard at some seminars - and I am affraid that some UKA staff are pushing it - about starting weights at an early age.

Yes you can, but in terms of throws development, what are the benefits? My point was that you can learn the techniques which are simple just as good at 16-18 and core stability etc can be gained by a calisthenic programme and ball throwing and jumping programme and more fun at a young age where you can build up specific throwing strength by throwing med balls, bags or even something as simple as lifing bags of potatoes!!!

Or maybe I am just full of it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Out of interest, and again not wishing to disrespect James as he is a nice lad - but what do you think has gone wrng for him this year (wrong being a relative term as he hasn't improved in terms of distance) - or maybe James has a view.

This is a discussion forum guys and I know I would have benefitted greatly from something like this when I was throwing as I would be genuinley interested in what people thought of my throwing and what they thought was wrong with it.