Am I A Good Enough Coach?

[Gamey]

When do you say that I've done all I can & this athlete needs a better coach?

I havn't been in this situation but just how far can you take someone before you reach the limit?

What resources are available to help the talented throwers? What about those who are near but not quite amongst the best?

I look at one of the younger athletes mentioned in this forum & wonder just how long before someone tries to poach him with promises of better things (funding?). What do you do in this situation? What is best for the athlete??

[tomd]

Good question and quite difficult to answer. In my experience it is the athlete who decides when he/she feels they have got all they can from a certain coach. It is the truly good coach who can honestly appraise him/herself and recognise their own abilities.

Very few resources are available to assist talented throwers, unless they make the standard dictated on the Performance Matrix and become eligible for Lottery funding.

[JB]

Sorry to show ignorance but what is the performance matrix ?

[beepee]

When the trust/bond has been broken between each party then its time to call it a day. Coaching an athlete is not just a technical thing it goes way beyond this boundary and covers such things as a total friendship package with a reliance in the belief that the partnership can break down any barriers that are placed before them whilst this trust remains solid. If there are limits (no coach knows everything) that are reached then the athlete`s welfare must be the overiding factor. I coach young athletes who are as you say"near but not quite amongst the best" who have been chosen by UKa to be in a "regional talent squad". From this they get free training within the English Institute of Sport and can use the facitlies and equipment at will. Personally I oversee their training whilst in the EIS but a higher percentage of these have their own coach who actively take part in these training sessions and we have great fun whilst still getting the nitty gritty done. I know that it does happen in the real world out there, but, and it is a big BUT, there should be no mention of any athlete leaving their existing coach unless that same coach has requested it, poaching is bad news for both the sport and any self respecting coach. There is no need for it other than for the boosting of a reputation of an otherwise incompetent person who is incapable of home growing local talent. I do all of my coaching voluntary and my "pay off" is to see progression of these athletes that I oversee and have fun also along the way plus I have made many friends amongst the coaches of the said athletes. Hassle is part and parcel of coaching but when it stops being "fun" then it is time to say sayonara.

[Gamey]

What is the criteria to get chosen for the Regional Talent squad & how does it work?

Ditto JB - what is the performance matrix??

Showing my ignorance I know but just trying to learn

[Lovett]

Check this out for funding info, dont think its got anything on the regional talent criteria though?? There not very organised down south...the squads seem to be more word of mouth this winter!!

www.ukathletics.net/vsite/vnavsite/page/directory/0,10853,4854-131218-132526-nav-list,00.html

[beepee]

Ok I will try to explain briefly what the performance matrix etc is. If you visit the site address posted by Anthony you will see a set of standards, ie, world class and potential class given by UKa. Simply put if you are ranked in the top ten in the world for instance then you are put on the World Class Performance Plan and this basically means that you receive funding or wages if you like (for two years) and all the associated goodies that go with it, medical back up etc in other words it is your "paid career". The potential class are athletes who reach the issued standards that are given for there age (under twenty three) and are expected to get a medal at a major international meeting in the next few years,for this they receive partial payment and medical back up plus expenses and kit etc. In 2002 Uka started "talent Identification Squads" (TID`s) who were chosen by Uka, through some standard tests, to be worthy of investment by way of time and energy and regular training days were set up for these selected athletes to be coached by regional coaches. The T.I.D.s sort of died a death this year and they were re-named "Regional Talent Squads" (RTS) but they are mainly made up of English Schools Champs standard athletes or similar that are ranked in the top six or so and are mainly aged under twenty . All of these "classes" get to train free of charge and use the facilities of the recently set up EIS (English Institute of Sport) in various places but the RTS do not get medical back up or any remuniration of any kind. A select number of coaches are paid by way of an Honourarium but they are few and far between and most of them like myself do it for the love of it. Hope that clarifies things a bit for you.

[JB]

So what that website tells me is that im apparantly already to old to do any good and that the UKA only helps support athletes in there 20's once they are past 70m !(this of course should be continued) but what happens to the atheletes in the 60m's who may benefit from funding and better coaching?... im off outside to shoot myself and send my old and past it carcass to the glue factory

[Lovett]

Dont worry John theres the Elite an International standard of 86.30 and 81.10....so theres hope if you have'nt already pulled the trigger. ;D

Ideally the top athletes in each age group should be looked after one way or another, to at least give them a good chance of progressing...but due to money UKA wont pump out money if there not gonna see anything in return.

You could be a few metres off the standard and get nothing or achieve the standard and get everything under the sun...i have picked up 5 medals at all my 5 english schools and 2 schools internationals, AAA's medals an so on over 8 years of throwing and have probably got about 4/5 grants over those years...now for the last 4 years i've had an annoying foot problem which is seriously holding me back and gets me down at times, with some support this would have been sorted out as soon as it happened (like most athletes injurys) and could have let me achieve my full potential, if it werent for the love of training/and throwing when i can i would have hung my boots up a long time ago.

[motherhen]

I agree with what beepee says about coach athletes relationships and that does play a huge role. You cant make an athlete stay with you if they really want to move to another coach but it doesnt mean your not a good coach. Surprisingly a fair few often come bac to the nest so to speak when they realise the grass isn't greener on the other side.

If you have someone you feel needs more support than you can give look for that person yourself and use it as an opportunity for development. Recently I was approached to work with some athletes another coach had as she felt they need more technical work in the javelin then she could provide. I would never dream of poaching them (but im just that kinda girl) but helped the athletes on a regular basis, passed info on to the coach and worked as a team with them. I know it doesnt always happen in the ideal world but if you dont try you'll never know

There isnt that many of us throwers around so if we dont look after each other who will lol!

[Dorsetcoach]

Spot on with the bit about being a few metres off the standard and getting nothing. That seems to be exactly how it works. Even worse if you suspect that it is want of some costly investigation and treatment for a persistent / difficult to diagnose injury which might be one of the things preventing you reaching your potential.

I guess there are many potentially very talented throwers who have hit some bad luck with a persistent injury and eventually give up on the frustration of not being able to realise their best.

I suspect athletes in their mid teens are particualrly vulnerable to being lost to the sport - wonder if any one has ever reaserched this. The have demands on them from all sorts of other directions, arguably have a higher risk of injury during growth, and have no access to funding for / or specialist medical help. I wonder how many potential world class athletes we have lost over the years without even knowing it.....impossible question!

I can't help thinking the Athletics "all or nothing" criteria for funding etc is bananas. It's not like that in most other sports. Why not some form of sliding scale?

Then again, do you think it is healthy and character building to put up-and-coming athletes through this "determination" test? The ones who get through their teens and are still there to make it to the top are either very lucky injury-wise or incredibly determined!!!

What do you think?

[beepee]

Hi Tim I suppose you know better than most what aggro you go through when an athlete who is just below the standard gets injured, it stinks it really does and all of a sudden every one in the Uka household goes blind deaf and dumb. I have just had the same situation where one of my athletes has an injury to the ankle and after seven weeks of paying for physio it is still no better. We asked the EIS for help with a diagnosis and got the brush off even though the athlete was willing to pay top fee just to be able to train again . I fired off a few e mails in anger and it worked so treatment is forthcoming albeit at some cost.
It seems crazy to me that athletes who may be able to get to the potential class and get free medical treatment when they do get the standard cannot achieve this because they are already injured? and cannot compete at the needed level, is it me or is that just plain stupid?. The javelin event is designed to wreck the body and injuries are going to happen somewhere along the line, it is a high velocity event that tests the body to its ultimate limits and injuries are inevitable. I know of at least a dozen "potential" athletes who have, or probably will, pack in the sport due to the frustration of trying to cope with a long term injury that would most likely respond well if given quick appropriate treatment so God knows how many have already been lost to the sport I shudder to think. Maybe with "clubs" like this one starting to gather pace we may have the numbers eventually to shout rather than mumble and make someone sit up and take notice who has the empowerment to do something about it. Give my best to Lou and see you on the circuit.
Brian

[Dorsetcoach]

Hi Brian,
Thanks for that – supportive and encouraging as ever!

I agree, this forum is a great idea. I think it has an important role to play not just in practical ways this advice, problem solving and tips, etc, but also through encouragement for athletes (and coaches!) to keep going when things don’t look so rosy. Maybe, as you say, also as a collective voice which is more likely to be heard to start getting a few things sorted out around the sport as a whole.

Tim

[sam]

Thanks for the encouraging support. I am passionate about athletics as a whole and it saddens me to see the sport get dragged down and down by over officious men in suits.
My aim is to make thejavelinclub a talking point for not just javelin throwers but all athletes as the club that started a revolution.
Looking through the rankings it saddens me to see that we are relying on Steve Backley(35) and Mick Hill(39) to lead the way. There was David Parker a few years ago brining a little hope with 78m but he has fallen by the way-side due to injuries (good luck to him on his comeback)
We need to take stock as a nation and say "hey wait a minute....hill is going to retire this year backley the next and we haven't got anyone coming through"
Russia have got a 20yr old in Ivanov throwing well over 80m our best 20yr old (not discrediting him) is Alex Van Der Mewer with 69m anyone else see the gap?

We need to start by getting the best coaches from around the world to have an input and the coaches from the UK to stop and bite their tongue and say "you know..maybe i have been coaching wrong, maybe this is a good idea to try this new technique"

Of course coaching is not always the best thing to attack. I know that if i could only spend longer on the track then i would be a better thrower but i have to work like everyone else. Funding is the biggest problem. you only get funding if you are throwing a set standard but you can't get to the standard without funding....talk about a vicious circle. more money needs to be free'd up to assist those with potential realise their dream.

[motherhen]

I suspect athletes in their mid teens are particualrly vulnerable to being lost to the sport - wonder if any one has ever reaserched this. The have demands on them from all sorts of other directions, arguably have a higher risk of injury during growth, and have no access to funding for / or specialist medical help. I wonder how many potential world class athletes we have lost over the years without even knowing it.....impossible question!

There has been research conducted at mid teens (U17/U20) is a big problem for drop in athletics. UKA formed 17-22 group to use as consultation and help finding ways to prevent this but to be honest the info I can see on the website is a bit vague on who it is and what it does other than asking random polls at present. There is also a big push in linking universities to athletes although I think this was meant to come more online post legacy money.